discussion M578 armoured recovery vehicle (Italeri/Verlinden)

[Guest]

Now I’ve got another model finished, I can let myself start a new one I’ve wanted to build an American M578 ARV for thirty years, and last year, I finally got hold of the old Verlinden conversion set for one, which gives me the opportunity to do so.

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As a bit of background, the M578 is basically the hull of the M107/M110 self-propelled guns, but with the gun turntable replaced by a turret with a crane and the rear recoil spade by a stabiliser so the crane can be used over the rear of the vehicle as well. The M107 and M110 differ only in the gun fitted: a 175 mm with very long barrel in the former, a 203 mm with short barrel in the latter; later, the M110 was upgraded to the M110A1 with a longer barrel too (but not as long as the M107’s) and then to the M110A2 by fitting a muzzle brake. Any of these SP guns could be converted into any of the others by replacing the barrel and some minor items, which could be done in six hours — later in two — given a crane capable of lifting the barrel. The M578 was intended as a light recovery vehicle, not just for SP gun units but also others.

Anyway, on to the model. After the Verlinden set, I bought an Italeri M110. This kit has been released in different guises and by different kit manufacturers over the years since its initial release as an M107 in the late 80s, but all of them are essentially the same kit. Only the barrel, decals etc. change, regardless of whether you buy it as an Italeri, Revell, Tamiya, Testors, or whatever: any 1:35 scale M107 or M110 kit is the Italeri offering, so for this conversion I just bought the cheapest one I could find

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This is, of course, the Italeri kit, the Verlinden conversion set and also a set of Verlinden US tank crew in NBC suits that I want to put into the hatches.

In the Italeri box, you get the following:

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The sprue with the gun parts went straight into my spares box, because I need exactly no parts of it on this model.

Verlinden gives you this:

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Note that the crane has already been built, by the previous owner of this set. He soldered it together and did quite a good job by the looks of it. This saves me pretty much all the difficult work

And the figures:

View attachment 418899

 

[Guest]

On the hull rear, a wedge-shaped toolbox must be cut away and replaced by flat plastic card:

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The turret’s lower section is too small in diameter to fit the turret ring:

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As it is, the turret moves about and often ends up at an angle because part of it can fall into the turret ring. Obviously, this needs fixing, so I think I’ll have to glue plastic strip around it to get it to be centred correctly.

 

[minitnkr]

........and add a post & hole so the turret won't tip when you add all that brass? PaulE

 

[GerryW]

Interesting!

 

[Jim R]

Hi Jakko
A most interesting build.
Jim

 

[Guest]

........and add a post & hole so the turret won't tip when you add all that brass? PaulE

That turret is a solid block of resin. I’m more worried that its weight will tip the whole model backwards than that it won’t be stable because of the crane

Thinking about it, though, I might just glue the turret down. I want to replicate the vehicle in the photo at the top (though minus the tarp over the crane) and it has its crane hook shackled to the lifting eyes, so the turret won’t be able to move anyway.

 

[Guest]

Turret problem solved:

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This is just some bits of 1 mm plastic card glued around the turret so it fits the ring better. Still a little loose, but not so much so that it’s a problem anymore.

Now the suspension. If you look at the photo of the real vehicle I posted, you many notice there is something slightly odd about it. If you’re like me, it may take a few seconds to realise it has only four wheels, instead of the five it should have … this is why I want to build that vehicle rather than just any M578.

You can see the rear roadwheel has been removed: the suspension arm with its axle is visible, the arm hanging vertically. The other suspension arms are compressed because of the weight, so I need to replicate that. Luckily, the Italeri kit has separate suspension arms that locate by means of a good, solid pin with a flat side on it. File off a bit of the flat side and you can reposition the arms easily.

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I numbered the arms (you can see that in the photo, scratched into the rear faces) and measured wheel deflection in the photo. I get the impression the second wheel is more or less at its normal position, so I didn’t adjust that. The front wheel is down a little while three and four are up, so I had to file a bit on those arms to make them do that too. You don’t need to file off much, a little goes a long way.

After that, I put them into the model and lined them up with a ruler to get this:

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Now I just need to do the other side to match. My idea is that the front right wheel will be slightly down, but probably not more than the play in the Italeri parts allows; if I then fit the rear (fifth) arm on the right side so that the wheels at the four corners are all on the ground, I can line up the remaining arms between them. With a bit of luck it should look right.

 

[Guest]

I'll follow as any recovery vehicle is interesting to an Ex REME recy mech .

 

[Isitme]

Jakko,
Add a slab of metal in the front end to counter the weight of the crane cab, you can get these offf ebay.
Chair pulled up and watching with interest.
Mike.

 

[Jim R]

Hi Jakko
It's now even more interesting. I didn't notice the missing wheel :rolling:. My observational skill must be poor as the reference photo and the box art are practically next to each other. Just hope I never witness a crime and have to give a description of the wrongdoer :tongue-out3:
Great work on the suspension.
Jim

 

[Isitme]

Hi Jakko
It's now even more interesting. I didn't notice the missing wheel :rolling:. My observational skill must be poor as the reference photo and the box art are practically next to each other. Just hope I never witness a crime and have to give a description of the wrongdoer :tongue-out3:
Great work on the suspension.
Jim

You would tell them it was me anyway.....

 

[Guest]

Add a slab of metal in the front end to counter the weight of the crane cab, you can get these offf ebay.

I’m not yet sure it needs a balance weight, but I’ll know for sure when I try Blu-Tacking all the wheels on and stick the turret on as well. Might do that later this evening, come to think of it … I suspect the missing wheel may make a weight in the front more necessary than normal.

It's now even more interesting. I didn't notice the missing wheel :rolling:.

When I first found that photo and looked at it, I thought, “Something’s odd, but what is it? Hang on, does the M107/110 have four wheels or five? It’s five, isn’t it? Or maybe not …” Then I looked at the box art and found confirmation that my memory really wasn’t playing tricks on me

Great work on the suspension.

This is one of those areas where Italeri always had the upper hand over Tamiya, back when those two were your only real choices: Italeri let you do stuff like this I have an M110A2 I built over 25 years ago, with the same sort of modifications to get its suspension to fit a diorama base. That would never have been possible with a Tamiya kit …

 

[Guest]

Here’s the result from the quick test:

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All the wheels touch the ground with the turret in place, and no counterweight in the front of the hull, so I don’t think I will need one

On the rear of the hull, I had to remove the tail lights from under the little hoods on the rear mudguards, as I only discovered they should be after glueing the rear plate to the model:

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This because the support for using the crane at the rear will sit in front of the normal M107/110 tail lights, so they were repositioned to the top. This was tricky to do, and I had to remove the mud flaps to get to the lights. No big deal, they’re easy to replace and the moulded ones were far too thick anyway. I just have to fill the holes still.

On the turret, I have been puzzling together how the crane actually attaches, which is not that clear from Verlinden’s instructions. I began by attaching four pieces of thick etched brass to the turret, which form the pivot points at the top. Once they were on, though, the crane doesn’t fit properly between them Looking carefully, it turns out to be slightly twisted (or perhaps crooked) and a fraction too wide. The result is that, if the top is lined up correctly, the bottom doesn’t sit between the hinge plates as it should, but just on top of the right hinge and inboard of the left one — while if I try to slide it between the hinge plates, it won’t fit.

I’m pondering on how to fix this, as the crane is a pretty solid piece at the moment.

 

[Jim R]

Hi Jakko
The slope on the hull due to the missing wheel looks spot on. I'm sure you'll sort the crane fit.
Jim

 

[GerryW]

Think that it'd find the wall at this stage with me - even after all the work!

 

[minitnkr]

Will these help any? For discussion purposes only.

 

[Guest]

The slope on the hull due to the missing wheel looks spot on. I'm sure you'll sort the crane fit.

Thanks. The slope on the other side is far more severe than I had expected, but given that there’s only one way to get all wheels on the ground, it must be correct

Think that it'd find the wall at this stage with me - even after all the work!

This model has hardly been any work at all yet

Will these help any? For discussion purposes only.

Thanks, they might come in handy. I’ve found a (short) walk around but because your photos have the boom raised they show some details that doesn’t.

After writing my previous post, attempts to try and bend the boom so it would fit didn’t really work, and popped some of the soldered joints. These appear to have not been soldered too well, as there turns out to not be any solder on the inside or even between the parts. As I see it, I have two options: heat the crane so it falls apart and rebuild it myself (either soldered or glued, though I don’t really feel like either), or scratchbuild a copy of the crane in plastic card so that I can ensure it fits (but that has the problem of how to make those holes in the side plates).

 

[Guest]

The stabiliser blade that goes at the rear was not quite straight:

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This wasn’t too surprising, given that it’s a long, thin piece of resin. I used a hair dryer to heat it up for most of its length, then straightened it out on a kitchen countertop and stuck it under cold running water. This took a few tries, because it kept curving back to its original shape. I realised after a few attempts that I probably wasn’t heating it thoroughly enough, so the inside remained too cool. This proved correct, as heating it for longer did work.

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On the underside of the blade was a big scar from where I had removed the big casting block (because Verlinden) using a Trumpeter panel-line scriber, which pulls slivers of resin out and so doesn’t produce dust like sawing would. I filled the scar with car body putty and after letting it set for about a day, filed it down to the blade. Because the body putty doesn’t adhere all that well to the resin, I then smeared superglue all over it with my finger, hoping to bond it to the resin along the sides.

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After that I went back to trying to figure out how the other bits for the spade mechanism go together. So far I’ve made a number of abortive attempts, because the instructions are very poor in this regard. They want you to bend certain etched parts but don’t explain how, or where they are to fit, exactly. I think I figured it out tonight, so I’ll see whether it actually works as I now think it does tomorrow …

 

[Guest]

Right, this one is on indefinite hold. I just can’t figure out how some of the bits for the spade go together, especially the ones that don’t seem to fit correctly, others are clearly wrong, and I can’t find good enough references to put it all together the right way round. In addition, I’m still dreading rebuilding the crane. My enjoyment of this model had drained away these past few days, so I’vd put everything back into the box and put it back on the shelf. It will get finished someday, but not in the next couple of weeks or months

 

[GerryW]

Right, this one is on indefinite hold. I just can’t figure out how some of the bits for the spade go together, especially the ones that don’t seem to fit correctly, others are clearly wrong, and I can’t find good enough references to put it all together the right way round. In addition, I’m still dreading rebuilding the crane. My enjoyment of this model had drained away these past few days, so I’vd put everything back into the box and put it back on the shelf. It will get finished someday, but not in the next couple of weeks or months :sad:

Jakko, if you can't find the references, then they aren't there - shame that it's ground to a halt.