discussion aluminum foil

[jimpman120]

well i did a quick search for aluminum foil and there was none. So has any one done it? did it turn out to your expectations. if not what did you run into ive been reading in a fine scale modeler book (modlers guide to realistic painting and finishing) where they show you how to do it but of course i want to here if any one else has tried it. im doing a monogram B-17 in 1:48 and i want it in real aluminum. thank you,

James

 

[Guest]

Howdy Jim,

I have a 1:48th scale B-17 that I have been meaning to start work on but, like everyone else, I cant ever seem to find the time to start on. I also like the look of the bare"aluminum skin" of the old flying fortress, however, instead of foil, I would suggest using Alcad paint providing that you have an airbrush and a little time.

Alcad paint specializes in bare metal colors such as chrome, Aluminum, steel and several other colors of metal.

What makes alcad different from other "metal finish" paints is the results you get. By using a gloss black base coat then spraying the model with the metal color of your choice you can achieve results that will shine so well, you can almost count your moustache hairs in the reflexion of the paint.

You can see my model of the T-33 shooting star jet interceptor done in alcad paint here: http://www.scale-models.co.uk/aircraft-pictures/4454-lockheed-t-33a-shooting-star.html

And a cheaper alternitive can also provide excellant results using the same principals when painting. First for a bare metal finish you want the aircraft to be as smooth as possible (with the exception of panel lines and rivets etc..), I achieve this by a couple of techniques, a clear gloss coat, then a gloss black coat then the metal color. the gloss coats act as a primer, smoothing out any imperfections in the model, the black also allows the metal color to really "stand out" (same principal as Alcad uses). Then I vary the shade of the metal color and paint individual panels with the 'off shades" of the metal. You can see an example of this on my Mig-21 here: http://www.scale-models.co.uk/aircraft-pictures/5128-mig-21-p-f-fishbed-nva.html

Now as for your original question about foil, I have yet to use the stuff....and it does look nice, but i believe that attempting to cover such a large aircraft with foil would be a major chore, but, thats just my thoughts on the matter. I have seen foil used on the bumpers and chrome parts of model cars and it does well for small areas, I just dont believe that would attempt anything so big as a flying fortress with foil.

I hope this has been of some help or inspiration to you, have a good day,

greg aka GEEDUBBYA (GW)

 

[jspitza]

Hi James (and Greg)

Have you checked out BareMetalFoil or BMF? This is the stuff to beat for a real aluminum finish. There are tons of articles on crazy nutcases who have covered their finished models with this stuff.

BTW; Kick arse models Greg!

 

[jimpman120]

Hi James (and Greg)Have you checked out BareMetalFoil or BMF? This is the stuff to beat for a real aluminum finish. There are tons of articles on crazy nutcases who have covered their finished models with this stuff.

BTW; Kick arse models Greg!

thats what i think, if you want aluminum finish why not use the real thing? i understand that there are paints out there that will look close to the real thing but it to me still looks like paint, and isnt modeling suposed to be a chore lol, for the big pay off? greg your planes are a verry good representation of what paint can do and how far its gone. but im determand to do it in foil. no matter how much hair i loose over it lol.

 

[jspitza]

Or sanity! Please let us know how things come on along and please do show photos!

 

[Guest]

thats what i think, if you want aluminum finish why not use the real thing? i understand that there are paints out there that will look close to the real thing but it to me still looks like paint, and isnt modeling suposed to be a chore lol, for the big pay off? greg your planes are a verry good representation of what paint can do and how far its gone. but im determand to do it in foil. no matter how much hair i loose over it lol.

Jipman I understand and appreciate your determination to achieve a finish in a way you wish to do it and it will be very interesting to see the results but do not kid yourself that all paint looks like paint.

As Greg has tried to explain and the rest of the modelling world will wholeheartedly support, Alclad does not look like paint. If you read such a magazine as Tamiya Modelling International you will see just what can be achieved by using Alclad.

It will be interesting to see how you get on particularly how you overcome the challenges of getting a non stretching material around complex curves without getting creases and how you will get it to conform to the surface detail in the process.

Make sure you post plenty of pictures!!

 

[jspitza]

Here is an interesting link on the subject of Alclad lacquers:

The Secret Life of Alclad 2

Now here is a fascinating article on just what paint or lacquer can do and its varying shades of metal via different manufactures:

Making your own NMF chart by Rogério ´Rato´ Marczak

And finally, a step by step guide on using BMF.

Metal Foil Tips by Mick McLeod

I have not yet used Alclad but did use Testors metalizer (non buffing) aluminum and loved the results. It was not easy to handle though and flaked off quite easily.

 

[jimpman120]

well after reading both articles and seeing the finished results. i feel even more enthusiastic about foiling. im a machinest by trade and the thought of using aluminum is soo tempting. i have not started on the interior at all YET. but when that is done i will be shure to take photos of a first time go at foiling. i do have another plane which is in natural finish, and im tempted to do it first not to kill my b-17 if it all gose to heck on me hno:.

 

[jspitza]

Hi Jim:

What about actually making a B17? There are some models I've seen when metal workers built from plans a scale replica! Just a thought since you do work with metals.

 

[jimpman120]

well as tempting as that may be to me i dont have the bank roll to support that endever, with all i have going on with life. i was going to do a tank or somthing in 1:4 scale a while back but was put off by the total investment or money pit which evere way you look at modeling in that scale. mabye when ive got my solitude as an old fart with a little work shop i can retire in i might look in to it again. for now ive got the boys trained to keep out of my modleing room (for now) :knight:

 

[jimpman120]

Jipman I understand and appreciate your determination to achieve a finish in a way you wish to do it and it will be very interesting to see the results but do not kid yourself that all paint looks like paint.As Greg has tried to explain and the rest of the modelling world will wholeheartedly support, Alclad does not look like paint. If you read such a magazine as Tamiya Modelling International you will see just what can be achieved by using Alclad.

It will be interesting to see how you get on particularly how you overcome the challenges of getting a non stretching material around complex curves without getting creases and how you will get it to conform to the surface detail in the process.

Make sure you post plenty of pictures!!

i didnt mean to just dismiss the information that greg gave me on alclad paint and if i came accross as if i didnt care i apologize. its not that i dont belive that it looks bad, i just wanted to try somthing new not paint. i could just paint it in the green they also flew in, but i want to do it in aluminum and if i painted it aluminum i would feel as tho i cheated my self out of trying somthing new.

 

[wonwinglo]

Many years ago when you could not get all of these fandangled ready made products,we used to use ordinary tin domestic cooking foil,the adhesive was ordinary clear varnish which was allowed to go tacky before applying the foil,you can work the foil onto the intricate shapes of a model with the use of any ordinary domestic tea spoon,simply work it over the foil by rubbing with the back of the spoon carefully and it will start to take the curve,multiple shapes are made up by applying another piece,somebody covered a model of the Avro Lancaster to represent one in RCAF service,it really looked good.

Those Alclad finishes can also be achieved with special car bumper paint obtainable at car accessory shops,it comes in spray cans and really does shine !

Best of luck with your experiments there.

i didnt mean to just dismiss the information that greg gave me on alclad paint and if i came accross as if i didnt care i apologize. its not that i dont belive that it looks bad, i just wanted to try somthing new not paint. i could just paint it in the green they also flew in, but i want to do it in aluminum and if i painted it aluminum i would feel as tho i cheated my self out of trying somthing new.

 

[jimpman120]

well the thing im most concernd about is the edges of the aluminum picing together. i was reading scale modlers article on foiling ac he talked about the extra fuel tank and sanding down the edge of the first pice of foil and then placing on the next. then sand it down to achive the finish of a seamless tank. well what about the wings? there are alot of seams and rivets, is that where the preferd place to seam your alum. would be?by cutting down the seam line on the first pice then again for the next pice in the same seam?the article that was posted here is leaning be to belve this.any other thoughts? i was also thining of doing the wings in stages basicly from wing tip to outer engine to inboard engine to fusilage. good idea or bad/ do the engine curves first.wings seprate from fusilage. im no where near this step but i want to get it in my head first so i know where im stepping thank you for all your help guys!!

 

[Guest]

Quote:

"i didnt mean to just dismiss the information that greg gave me on alclad paint and if i came accross as if i didnt care i apologize. its not that i dont belive that it looks bad, i just wanted to try somthing new not paint. i could just paint it in the green they also flew in, but i want to do it in aluminum and if i painted it aluminum i would feel as tho i cheated my self out of trying somthing new."

Howdy Jim,

No offense was taken, I know too well about trying new things and the determination one has when you have your mind set on doing something at least one time (or atleast giving it your best shot).

I wish ya the best of luck and look forward to hearing/seeing how it turns out.

The tips that barry gave you should be taken to heart, this guy really knows his stuff when it comes to models. If you get a chance, visit his website or gallery sometime and have a look, I think you will be amazed at the things he has accomplished in his endeavors.

Have a good day and again, best of luck to you on the superfortress,

Greg aka GEEDUBBYA (GW)

 

[Guest]

well i did a quick search for aluminum foil and there was none. So has any one done it? did it turn out to your expectations. if not what did you run into ive been reading in a fine scale modeler book (modlers guide to realistic painting and finishing) where they show you how to do it but of course i want to here if any one else has tried it. im doing a monogram B-17 in 1:48 and i want it in real aluminum. thank you,James

Try aluminum adhesive tape used for HVAC work or litho plate. Takes some patience to get the detail you want, not to mention all the fitting & panels you'll be cutting, but it looks nice. I'm using it to detail a 1/35 schnellboot I'm building.

Here's a example of a 1/8 scale DC-3 done in litho:http://www.propellor.tv/2/2.html

 

[jimpman120]

so i got my micro foil adhesive this past week and practiced dry foiling with no adhesive rubbing with Q tips and tooth picks to get the feel of how finiky the stuff is. i just taped it to the side of a wing and started rubbing out fron the middle. wow this stuff is cool. ive got some pics of my elevator wing. not done compleately it i a textured section so i wanted to show you i didnt scerw up with all the bumps of the texture. the photos are bad because my batterys are dead for my camera so bare with me. so far this is is an absolute BLAST! a must try. the only draw back is when guys write have lots of new blades they mean it. they dull fast. 1 blade =ed 2 elevators like this both sides. also why are my pics sooooo wide???

 

[jimpman120]

[No message]

 

[jspitza]

NICE!!! Your maybe not the madman I envisioned!!! Is this proving to be very difficult?

 

[jimpman120]

NICE!!! Your maybe not the madman I envisioned!!! Is this proving to be very difficult?

well, my thoughts were that because every one gose to alclad II that foiling was very dificult, tedious and expert only teritory. but to my suprise its not that bad. yes there is planning involved. where to meet two pices together in a seam etc. keeping the pices with no finger prints where the glue is going to be applied. mabye im speeking to early but its not as hard as i anticipated. its fun rubbing on the aluminum. its the oppisit of un wrapping a x-mas gift lol. u are wraping the gift. the elevators took me about 2hrs. to do both as far in the pics. im now concidering to do another in foil. but i mustfinish what ive started ill be posting as i build. there was no painting on the elevators so that why i did them first.

 

[jimpman120]

so ill be posting some new pics of my progerss soon. the thing ive found to be the most trying is the front nose gun turret and the front engine cowl. the problem bieng there are no seams to hide pice's. at first i thought about trying to blend the first aluminum pice into the plastic to reduce the amount of "lip" it would create. then place the second over the first by say 1/32 (1mm) or so then sand to a smooth finish. the problem is the amount of overlap. as you sand the aluminum foil you are trying to taper the aluminum to "blend" it. what happens is you get it soo thin you actually get it to start to tear and frey the edge and then the foi adhesive starts to show because yu have removed the foil on top. the tecniqe wasn't totaly wrong it lyes within the over lap. i went to trying out diffent was to create a "invisible" seam. you can not create a invisible seam but you can get really close. to fool the eye at say a foot away. so the way i found is to lay your frist down get it smooth then take 1000 grit or so and taper the edge a bit not too much or you risk fraying the edge then you lay the second pice downbut give your self 1/16 (1.5 mm) of over lap next rub down the two mating pices with the Q-tip so you can see the edge of the first then take a new blade and gently run along that seam you can go a little bit on top of the first remove the excess. now take your 1000 Gr. and sand the seam lightly. you wil sand off the over lap and the seam will be butted right up to the first. then take aluminum polish and buff with a Q-tip. then remove the polish with a soft cloth. and look at the seam to see if you need to hit a lip again or not. and the seam will be all but gone. i wil post my front engine cowl i did this technique on. i feel it looks really good. let me know what you guys think if there is any more questions i will try my best to awnser. i used house hold aluminum foil with micro foil adhesive this stuff works verry well. ill post pics tomorrow.