discussion Burnout, are there two sides

[Guest]

Hi all we've all experienced burnout with modelling at one time or another, but is there another type as distinct to modelling forums. Let's call them Mr or Mrs X they post pics of their first model on a site, probably crap, but on a site like this, they get lots of encouragement, so they start posting pics of every stage of their builds, and get lots of positive ratings, so are encouraged to post more, now there comes a point where this starts to get boring (burnout) let's say they don't notice the lack of comments (maybe they've joined another forum and are getting all the comments again) so now they are labelled as a boring modeler, is there a comeback from this, if they post less will people start looking again, my guess is no (let's face it they post every part they stick on) personally I think that person (if they even notice) will eventually stop posting, and it won't even be noticed they've even stopped, let's face it they're boring. I just wonder how many modelers we've lost due to politeness, and at what point could we step in and say "listen mate not everyone wants to see each part you stick to a kit, less is more"

 

[Guest]

I think at times we look at models posted and could give truthful feedback when its asked for! I'm no Picasso but at times I have seen models and thought oh my god, the modeller has asked for truthful feedback and no one says anything against it. I'm not saying slate the model and the modeller but a bit more truth in my eyes would be a good thing as its that way we learn and strive to do better?

 

[Guest]

I agree and wish people were more honest, you don't have to be rude or nasty but sometimes, as in the scenario I put forward, if someone had said hey mate too much info, great job but maybe you could post when you've done a bit more.

 

[Guest]

This is a big can of worms & one that's been raised a number of times before. The 'Great Build' rating has changed over time because of the previous suggestions, but there's never any real consensus of how forum members should be.


It can be a difficult balancing act between giving one's honest opinion & avoiding giving offence. Personally I think if you're prepared to show your work publicly, then you should be prepared to accept constructive criticism.... yes, I've used the CC words!


If in doubt, take my father's advice - if you can't find anything positive to say, don't say anything!

 

[Guest]

See that approach don't work either, if someone's first post got no reply they would not post again, this is the situation I find myself in.

 

[Guest]

Difficult. I think noobs like me need some sort of encouragement. Perhaps if you know someone is a noob it might be worth while encouraging them with their first few models and offering general advice. But then, once they are 'blooded' and have developed some skills, be a little more constructively critical with their work.


I hope I'm not one of the too frequent posters, please drop hints if I am.

 

[Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds]

I have to say I post less now than when I started, if you want the honest truth I felt some posts were going unanswered.


I also don't comment on many posts I know but as I don't know the subject most times, I feel I shouldn't post a comment for the sake of commenting.


If people post pictures I think its great and though it could be seen as they are open to any comments by doing so I honestly don't think people would be too brutal with what they say


We have a section for people to ask for honest feedback and so if they want a truthful answer they can post there.


Adrian

 

[rickoshea52]

I don't really make comments unless I feel that they will contribute to the thread, that doesn't mean I'm not interested, but I will more likely comment at the end of a build. There used to be a note of how many views a thread had received, I found this useful as it indicated my posts were being read even if no comments were made.


As far as I am concerned I will keep posting until I get bored and not when anyone else does.

 

[PhilJ]

I'm fairy new to the hobby by only about a year in I suppose, I've been quiet of late because I have just been incredibly busy but I still post most of the main parts of my build because I am just looking for constructive criticism because I'm learning and I've found it too which has helped.


Also some people have posted step by step builds of particular models which has helped me not by copying but emulating and taking the best bits so I think it's important.


Saying that, I think from now on I probably won't post as much because I feel fairly confident now in my own work.


You don't know who's posting either someone's build my not be up to your standard but they might be young or have learning disabilities so what are you gonna do? Tell them its rubbish? In their eyes it could be a massive achievement.


I agree if your not sure what to say don't say nothing at all.

 

[Guest]

Personally I, am now only going to post start and finish pics, it is true if you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all. I feel with this attitude I will get more modelling done, if someone wants to know how I did something they can ask

 

[Robert1968]

I joined this forum to get my ass kicked into the correct way of building models as I only leant when a kid from my dad or grandad.


Now I an here I expect constructive critism and if I have done something wrong I'm hoping the guys and gals on here can point me in the right direction.


I view others build and I say what I see......IMHO


I work with people with learning difficulties and I see the little things that' are important and I give praise where due


I am critical of my own work on here and I accept critism if it is positively identified.


I will never be as good as some of you modellers on here but I try to emulate what I have learnt and make notes on how to's


Art the end of the day I enjoy modelling and I enjoy this forum


Robert

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry to say this will be my first and last post.


I have just found this forum as I am interested in getting into plastic scale modelling as a help to my main interest of Scale RC Helicopters.


On the RC Heli forums I frequent no one is lambasted because they post a lot about a build they are doing and most are encouraged to post more.


In my opinion if you are not interested in commenting on a build or in giving help or CC don't read it and don't get involved.Don't start name calling just because it has no interest to yourself (aimed at OP).


Good luck to all in your hobby, I will look elsewhere for inspiration.

 

[Guest]

Not quite sure where you are coming from on the 'post every part they stick on' bit. I post loads of pictures with a load of waffle about what I am doing but this isn't meant to be anything other than giving people an idea of how a kit goes together. Sometimes I am a bit disappointed when I see a great build of a kit I would like to have a go at but there is not much info about how it was put together. I for one would be just as happy reducing the number of posts if people don't want to see them, it would give me more time to build them lol


There is a 'Critique Corner' forum for people who want serious critique of their build. Posting in there does not mean that the model will get real constructive criticism as not everyone may feel that they are skilled enough to write such a thing. However, it does mean that anyone posting in that forum has to take the rough with the smooth. I seem to remember there was a similar discussion going on when this Critique Corner forum was originally set up.


The whole idea of a critique depends on quite a few things which can inhibit the quality of the critique. A badly written critique can come over as harsh and possibly cause offence. A good critique can only really be written by someone who has a good background in either the techniques used, the type represented by the model or is well read on the history of the period.


I could not write a good critique as I know little about anything. I wouldn't know if the colour was wrong, the air filters are the wrong period for the type of vehicle or what machine guns were used after 1944. Why don't I know this? Its simple, I don't really care. Sorry if that offends people but I only build models for the fun of modelling not for the research and history of it. That does not mean that I don't respect those that do know, in fact I really admire the knowledge that some people have, it amazes me how they can hold that sort of information.


It also doesn't mean that if someone with that knowledge politely pointed out I was doing something wrong that I would object to having it pointed out. That comes with the proviso that they are not offended if I thank them for their input then ignore it. It is my model and I will build it how I want to which may or may not include corrections to improve it if I feel like doing that.


I could write a critique based on whether I like what someone has done with a build and, if I do like what I see, I can honestly say that for me, it is a great build. This will not be based on accuracy as I probably wouldn't know. It will not be based on the technical ability of the modeller simply because it is unlikely that I would know what their skill level is so would not be in a position to judge it.


Given the above, there would be no inherent value to any critique I wrote but if I honestly like something and get the feeling that the modeller has had a good go at it then I will say so. If I don't like something but do not feel qualified to say why, what would be the point of me saying anything? The downside to saying that is that now, if I say nothing, people will assume I don't like it which may not be true, it could be I just missed it.


At the end of the day, apart from certain aspects of a build, it is all a matter of opinion. Yes, it is easier to say "Great job" than to say "what the hell is that". I don't believe that many people on here take every 'happy' comment seriously but if it encourages them to keep modelling then job done as far as I am concerned.


I certainly don't take every good comment as being gospel, I do know my own abilities and I know when I get it wrong. I, and very few others, build a perfect kit each time. I have never built a perfect kit but if I enjoyed them then I just smile at my mistakes and make a mental note to try not to do that again, but chances are I will. It is a much nicer environment when people maybe are a little overgenerous. Trouble is, now I have said that, nobody will believe me when I say "Great job" anymore.


There is, to me, more to being on a forum than the finesse of the modelling. Modelling for a lot of people is a very solitary hobby. Not all of us have access to, time for or ability to become part of their local modelling club. A forum can be the only social contact many of us have with other like minded people. I will be quite honest in that issues I have had in the past has made it very difficult if not impossible to take criticism at times when I have been on edge. In fact, I will be completely honest and say that I actually offended and upset a well respected member of this forum for saying something to try and help me along when I was in a state were I couldn't accept it. A shameful action on my part which I have regretted ever since. Thankfully that person has been the bigger man and has not held it against me.


So, it is not all about the level of modelling, for some it is much more than that, it is a social club. That does not mean that others are here for more than that, that they need to have real criticism to help them develop their skills. However, don't you think that people can learn and develop by example as much as direct constructive criticism? A ineffective critique can actually be a really negative thing whereas a over generous comment can just give the incentive to keep climbing that ladder.


I feel that there is a place for well written critiques and I am sure if people want them then there are people on this forum who are knowledgeable and skilled enough to write them but, sadly, I am not one of them.

 

[Guest]

I too think this is a contentious subject. Whilst I only comment on a lot of threads if I feel I have something to offer, I do build threads, (currently my millennium falcon build) and after reading this it makes me wonder if I fall into that boring modeller category?, as maybe a few others may be thinking that about themselves too.


But without these threads are we not only ripping the heart out of the forums, but also losing an educational tool not only for new modellers, but also those more experienced who learn new techniques that may be demonstrated.


Cheers, Andrew

 

[Guest]

This is a good topic to bring up.


I have wondered at times if I go a little overboard with my quantity of posts when I have a build going. But, after consideration I remember that I do it for the possibility of helping someone out, especially beginners. I do the same thing with my YouTube channel. Cripes, my Monogram Panzer IV vlog was six parts! And they can be anywhere from around ten minutes long, to twenty plus. The way I see it, if someone doesn't want to watch or read what I have done, they can move on to something else. But there is nothing more frustrating than finding a build log of a kit I am considering, reading through lots of text about the kit and checking out the photos, only to realize that the last post the person ever makes about it in somewhere in the middle of the build. So, I do my threads with photos and notes on the given stage to offer information. Problem areas such as fit, or especially bad molding, or glaring mistakes.


As far as the constructive criticism part of it, I would love to hear others thoughts on my work. I always say something about it in my YouTube videos, requesting feedback in the comment section, good or bad.


For me, I like to provide meaningful feedback. If a subject is one that I am unfamiliar with, or just not interested in, I will look and move on. If something really pops though, like a stellar paint job or something, I will comment and specify what I like. I like specific feedback, good or bad, so I can improve, and I like to offer specific feedback when I can. That's why I try to give specifics on things that I think really look good or really attract my attention.


And I think I've said it before, but all of this is one of the reasons I like this forum. The people are great.

 

[Guest]

Personally I, am now only going to post start and finish pics, it is true if you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all. I feel with this attitude I will get more modelling done, if someone wants to know how I did something they can ask

We are all modeller s we know how to use the glue and the instructions of a kit. I prefer to post more pictures with my final project instead steps of my work ,if there are not relevant. Especially for small models. With ships... Is different. So many details, you have to show them once you rich that level otherwise will be lost on the.final pictures.


And I must tell you this. I left last forum I have been in because some of of the old members becomes over the years a kind of savant s in business knowing everything about modelling, opening thread s with long, long philosophical discussion showing how smart and how much they know and less and less posting of theyr work. But Theyr stile became a trend on that forum and I hate people tryin g to be what they are not. And no modesty, and beeing brutal in comments with new member and savant and extremely annoying comments on the old members threads. So I give up posting, I give up going to monthly meetings and exhibitions. I found this forum and I found the members here very friendly. But a little bit a constructive comments don't hurt, trust me. This is my opinion!

 

[Guest]

Not quite sure where you are coming from on the 'post every part they stick on' bit. I post loads of pictures with a load of waffle about what I am doing but this isn't meant to be anything other than giving people an idea of how a kit goes together. Sometimes I am a bit disappointed when I see a great build of a kit I would like to have a go at but there is not much info about how it was put together. I for one would be just as happy reducing the number of posts if people don't want to see them, it would give me more time to build them lol
There is a 'Critique Corner' forum for people who want serious critique of their build. Posting in there does not mean that the model will get real constructive criticism as not everyone may feel that they are skilled enough to write such a thing. However, it does mean that anyone posting in that forum has to take the rough with the smooth. I seem to remember there was a similar discussion going on when this Critique Corner forum was originally set up.


The whole idea of a critique depends on quite a few things which can inhibit the quality of the critique. A badly written critique can come over as harsh and possibly cause offence. A good critique can only really be written by someone who has a good background in either the techniques used, the type represented by the model or is well read on the history of the period.


I could not write a good critique as I know little about anything. I wouldn't know if the colour was wrong, the air filters are the wrong period for the type of vehicle or what machine guns were used after 1944. Why don't I know this? Its simple, I don't really care. Sorry if that offends people but I only build models for the fun of modelling not for the research and history of it. That does not mean that I don't respect those that do know, in fact I really admire the knowledge that some people have, it amazes me how they can hold that sort of information.


It also doesn't mean that if someone with that knowledge politely pointed out I was doing something wrong that I would object to having it pointed out. That comes with the proviso that they are not offended if I thank them for their input then ignore it. It is my model and I will build it how I want to which may or may not include corrections to improve it if I feel like doing that.


I could write a critique based on whether I like what someone has done with a build and, if I do like what I see, I can honestly say that for me, it is a great build. This will not be based on accuracy as I probably wouldn't know. It will not be based on the technical ability of the modeller simply because it is unlikely that I would know what their skill level is so would not be in a position to judge it.


Given the above, there would be no inherent value to any critique I wrote but if I honestly like something and get the feeling that the modeller has had a good go at it then I will say so. If I don't like something but do not feel qualified to say why, what would be the point of me saying anything? The downside to saying that is that now, if I say nothing, people will assume I don't like it which may not be true, it could be I just missed it.


At the end of the day, apart from certain aspects of a build, it is all a matter of opinion. Yes, it is easier to say "Great job" than to say "what the hell is that". I don't believe that many people on here take every 'happy' comment seriously but if it encourages them to keep modelling then job done as far as I am concerned.


I certainly don't take every good comment as being gospel, I do know my own abilities and I know when I get it wrong. I, and very few others, build a perfect kit each time. I have never built a perfect kit but if I enjoyed them then I just smile at my mistakes and make a mental note to try not to do that again, but chances are I will. It is a much nicer environment when people maybe are a little overgenerous. Trouble is, now I have said that, nobody will believe me when I say "Great job" anymore.


There is, to me, more to being on a forum than the finesse of the modelling. Modelling for a lot of people is a very solitary hobby. Not all of us have access to, time for or ability to become part of their local modelling club. A forum can be the only social contact many of us have with other like minded people. I will be quite honest in that issues I have had in the past has made it very difficult if not impossible to take criticism at times when I have been on edge. In fact, I will be completely honest and say that I actually offended and upset a well respected member of this forum for saying something to try and help me along when I was in a state were I couldn't accept it. A shameful action on my part which I have regretted ever since. Thankfully that person has been the bigger man and has not held it against me.


So, it is not all about the level of modelling, for some it is much more than that, it is a social club. That does not mean that others are here for more than that, that they need to have real criticism to help them develop their skills. However, don't you think that people can learn and develop by example as much as direct constructive criticism? A ineffective critique can actually be a really negative thing whereas a over generous comment can just give the incentive to keep climbing that ladder.


I feel that there is a place for well written critiques and I am sure if people want them then there are people on this forum who are knowledgeable and skilled enough to write them but, sadly, I am not one of them.

This is exactly what is am thinking about it!

 

[rickoshea52]

Personally I, am now only going to post start and finish pics, it is true if you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all. I feel with this attitude I will get more modelling done, if someone wants to know how I did something they can ask

I think that would be a real shame to restrict your posts to first and last, you do interesting builds and the pitfalls you avoid or fall into are valuable to others. I watched your build thread of the rusty French car from afar with interest even though it is a subject I wouldn't go near.

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry to have offended you spats that was not my intention and I certainly did not call anyone names nor did I say I was not interested in anyone's work, what I was actually saying was people are probably getting bored of MY posts I post a lot of pictures as I build, although it's not happened on here it has on other forums I am on where no one even looks at what I've posted, and I think that's what has happened, people have become bored of my posts. I don't intend for that to happen on here (my favourite forum)so am taking action to stop it. I started this thread to see if anyone else thought of this as well. As I said sorry to have offended you.

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry to say this will be my first and last post.
I have just found this forum as I am interested in getting into plastic scale modelling as a help to my main interest of Scale RC Helicopters.


On the RC Heli forums I frequent no one is lambasted because they post a lot about a build they are doing and most are encouraged to post more.


In my opinion if you are not interested in commenting on a build or in giving help or CC don't read it and don't get involved.Don't start name calling just because it has no interest to yourself (aimed at OP).


Good luck to all in your hobby, I will look elsewhere for inspiration.

Well, I'm sorry to see someone making a judgment about an entire forum based on one post! And you've rather missed the point of Ken's thread. He isn't suggesting that anyone begin to 'lambast' people's posts, but instead he's looking for opinions regarding the two subjects that he's raised.


If you want to begin making static scale models, there's probably no better forum than this one for support & inclusion. In 7 years, I've seen many new people join, all of whom were made very welcome irrespective of their modelling subject.