Cellulose to clean my airbrush
- Thread starter Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds
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G
Adrain I have used art brushes to touch up paint on motor bics & cars since the 1950's & not had any problems at all. I used cheap brushes but that is not a guarantee as cellulose is nasty stuff.
What paint have you been using. If acrylic I do not think that will have any effect but admit not tried it.
Laurie
What paint have you been using. If acrylic I do not think that will have any effect but admit not tried it.
Laurie
Short answer is yes.
Cellulose or lacquer thinners is a mixture of organic solvents,they are not all the same but they are all fairly "hot". More expensive branded airbrushes use materials in their seals,o-rings etc which are resistant to such solvents but some of the cheaper ones might not.
Cheers
Steve
Cellulose or lacquer thinners is a mixture of organic solvents,they are not all the same but they are all fairly "hot". More expensive branded airbrushes use materials in their seals,o-rings etc which are resistant to such solvents but some of the cheaper ones might not.
Cheers
Steve
G
celulose, as Steve said, is quite a "hot" chemical.
on cheaper rubber ... if it doesn't actually attack the rubber it'll certainly start to drag the natural oil out and dry it up rendering it useless. ... in the same way that your hands feel dry when its got on them and you've wiped it off... it pulls the natural oil out.
on cheaper rubber ... if it doesn't actually attack the rubber it'll certainly start to drag the natural oil out and dry it up rendering it useless. ... in the same way that your hands feel dry when its got on them and you've wiped it off... it pulls the natural oil out.
ive used it on mu iwata for the past year and had no problems and it strips any paint i put in it...but just be careful its nasty stuff alright
I've been using it in one of my older Iwata airbrushes for a long time and it still works fine. Iwata are of course one of the manufacturers that does use resistant components made of materials like "teflon". I would be wary of some of the cheaper airbrushes as the may not.\ said:
Cheers
Steve
G
If it's a cheaper AB, it could have rubber 'o' ring type seals and yes, they could easily be damaged by Cellulose thinner.\ said:
Is there a specific reason you're looking to clean with cellulose? Have you sprayed cellulose based paint through it, or sprayed others but not cleaned thoroughly or maybe acquired a second hand brush you want to make sure it properly flushed through? Or is this just a general how to query?
If it's all new to you and you are yet to use it, then use the appropriate thinner base to clean it, i.e. for enamels, clean with enamel thinner / turps / turpentine substitute / white spirits, if Acrylic, clean with acrylic thinner / Isopropyl Alcohol / 6% dilute solution of Ammonia / water* (dependant on the brand*)
It's easy, incidentally, to strip and inspect the brush to see what sealing methods it employs, my cheap brush uses teflon type needle packing and the only 'o' ring was on the nozzle.
Everyone has their own preferred cleaning method, heres mine which may be handy for you, works a treat, quick once you have the routine down pat and the AB is always ready to load and spray.
[video=youtube;k9YnScCetDo]
G
If it's the neo, no, they use rubber 'O' ring seals, the very reason I didn't get one of those and got a CR instead. Although the neo is better built than the £15 Chinese copies, I wanted a better brush for spraying cellulose.
G
Actually Adrian if you get airbrush cleaning brushes this will give you as good a clean as necessary. Use Acrylic brush cleaner for Acrylics & Oil paint thinners for enamel.
Softening up paint will not get rid of all the paint & without the brushes you will leave bits behind making matters worse. I clean mine every session & have never had to give an aggresive deep clean & I only use warm water that is for acrylics. All six parts dismantled & together in 4 mins.
Varnish, at least Vallejo, you need to make sure you do not cut corners & do it straight away.
Providing I follow all above & do it as soon as a session is complete it is perfect for the next session.
Laurie
Softening up paint will not get rid of all the paint & without the brushes you will leave bits behind making matters worse. I clean mine every session & have never had to give an aggresive deep clean & I only use warm water that is for acrylics. All six parts dismantled & together in 4 mins.
Varnish, at least Vallejo, you need to make sure you do not cut corners & do it straight away.
Providing I follow all above & do it as soon as a session is complete it is perfect for the next session.
Laurie
G
I have watched several cleaning movies, but could you please tell me what you do in "I clean mine every session". For example, what is the max. time that you let your AB go from the first addition of paint to cleaning it? What are "the six parts dismantled"? - I can count four: nozzle, nozzle cover, nozzle tip cover (or whatever these two are called), needle. Do you use that tiny bottle brush every time to clean the passage between the nozzle area and the bottom of the cup?. And what does an "aggresive deep clean" involve?\ said:
Using Xtracrylix, their thinner, and Iwata Medea Airbrush Cleaner and sometimes Muc off with a final rinsing blow of water, I am still having some flow and blocking problems (but less than before). After every spray session, (and never more than 5 minutes after the first pouring of paint) I dismantle all the four parts I mention above (pulling the needle from the front), soak in the cleaner, use the bottle brush, note light coming through the nozzle, and minutely inspect the tip of the needle with an optician's eyeglass. Can there be anything else to do?
Thanks.
G
Steve. First I use a Harder & Steenbeck so all refers to that & mostly I use Vallejo paint which is acrylic.
First I remove from the hose which has a quick release. The I rinse out all the paint remaining in the cup with warm running water.
I then dismantle the brush, 6 pieces in my case. First i remove the very back casing. Then withdraw the needle an inch away from the nozzle to avoid damage when removing the nozzle.
Remove the nozzle & guard & steep in a small amount of Airbrush Cleaner & give a gentle swish around for 5 secs & leave whiles washing the brush.
Remove the needle form the front so that there is not any danger of damage to the point. Lay all parts on kitchen roll & wash in warm water one by one. Careful with the needle.
I use brushes with water through the needle tunnel & also through the paint entry area all with hot water. Making sure I have got rid of all paint in the cup before doing this.
Then I reassemble trigger, needle assembly holder. Insert needle from the front end & withdraw an inch form the front.
Rinse nozzle & guard. I use brushes on the guard if paint is stubborn but usually the cleaner does that job.
Rinse a few times the nozzle each time I blow from the back end (making sure swallowing is not an option) making sure a spout of water jumps out. Then I sight thro the back of the nozzle onto white paper to make sure paint spout is clean & nice & round. Any residue of paint I would use a reamer, gently, then go thro the rinse procedure. Refix the nozzle etc then gently push the needle right into the nozzle. Fit the rear end cap.
Make sure you gently tighten all joints just enough to grip on the rings.
Replace hose & finished. Water may drain down the tunnel before you next use the brush so just expel before filling the cup with paint.
Many variations of this Steve but this works for me & with warm water & an egg cup full of airbrush cleaner.
Laurie
First I remove from the hose which has a quick release. The I rinse out all the paint remaining in the cup with warm running water.
I then dismantle the brush, 6 pieces in my case. First i remove the very back casing. Then withdraw the needle an inch away from the nozzle to avoid damage when removing the nozzle.
Remove the nozzle & guard & steep in a small amount of Airbrush Cleaner & give a gentle swish around for 5 secs & leave whiles washing the brush.
Remove the needle form the front so that there is not any danger of damage to the point. Lay all parts on kitchen roll & wash in warm water one by one. Careful with the needle.
I use brushes with water through the needle tunnel & also through the paint entry area all with hot water. Making sure I have got rid of all paint in the cup before doing this.
Then I reassemble trigger, needle assembly holder. Insert needle from the front end & withdraw an inch form the front.
Rinse nozzle & guard. I use brushes on the guard if paint is stubborn but usually the cleaner does that job.
Rinse a few times the nozzle each time I blow from the back end (making sure swallowing is not an option) making sure a spout of water jumps out. Then I sight thro the back of the nozzle onto white paper to make sure paint spout is clean & nice & round. Any residue of paint I would use a reamer, gently, then go thro the rinse procedure. Refix the nozzle etc then gently push the needle right into the nozzle. Fit the rear end cap.
Make sure you gently tighten all joints just enough to grip on the rings.
Replace hose & finished. Water may drain down the tunnel before you next use the brush so just expel before filling the cup with paint.
Many variations of this Steve but this works for me & with warm water & an egg cup full of airbrush cleaner.
Laurie
G
Thanks very much. Its good to have the fine detail.
I have been doing all the stages that you list but with one variation. It is interesting that you use water for all but the nozzle and its two guards, especially the way that you wash out the cup with warm running water. Using a lot of water, instead of several stages of small quantities of cleaner, is more likely to vigorously flush out any remaining paint in the airbrush itself, so I will do that from now on.
With more modelling I will be able to experiment with different proportions of thinners and air pressure (but I tend to use 20 PSI for general brushing).
I have been doing all the stages that you list but with one variation. It is interesting that you use water for all but the nozzle and its two guards, especially the way that you wash out the cup with warm running water. Using a lot of water, instead of several stages of small quantities of cleaner, is more likely to vigorously flush out any remaining paint in the airbrush itself, so I will do that from now on.
With more modelling I will be able to experiment with different proportions of thinners and air pressure (but I tend to use 20 PSI for general brushing).
G
Steve, see the video on my post, page one, this is how I clean my airbrushes, also full size sprayguns with the relevant variations in stripping, (I used to spray for a Volkswagen specialist)\ said:
When I need to use my brush, I clip to the airline, load with paint and go, never once have I encountered a paint flow problem, (the place I worked, there were 3 of us used to spray and spanner between us, we had 2 shop guns and after a couple of uses, I bought my own which was kept secured in my locker after getting annoyed with having to properly clean the guns the other guys just blew through with gunwash before each time I used them).
Blowing through with cleaner, even until it blows clear is inadequate.
I've said it before, (many times), there are shortcuts and there are half assed attempts at doing something.
A 'shortcut' by it's very definition is a means of reaching the same goal more quickly and efficiently, when it comes to cleaning paint from a gun, there are NO shortcuts.
The sole difference since I posted that video and now, (being that I hadn't gotten any at that point), is that I now use a 0.6mm interdental brush to clean the emulsion tube between cup and nozzle.
(pack of 6 from Tesco, 2 or 3 quid, I'm onto the second brush in about a year using with everything from IPA to Cellulose and its holding up fine, I bent the stalk on the first otherwise I'd still be on that)
The term aggressive deep clean should be quantified, you should not 'aggressively' do anything to an airbrush, it's a precision instrument. It may be reference to using a hot thinner like Cellulose, which is OK and in cases where paint has well and truly set from inadequate cleaning may be necessary, a good soak in cellulose of the stripped components and then a thorough clean should resolve the blockage.
Whilst not disagreeing with anything said above I'm afraid I'm much lazier.
During a project I only do a quick clean on my airbrushes. I'll flush them with white spirits (I use enamels),withdraw the needle and give it and the paint cup a good wipe before re-fitting the needle and giving the brush another flush. It takes about a minute.
I carry out the same routine between different colours.
After a project I completely dis-assemble any airbrushes used and give them a thorough clean including a brief soak of the airbrush body in cellulose thinners. I use the inter dental brushes to clean all the paint ways. I also chuck the whole lot in an ultrasonic cleaner and give it a good whizz.
I re-assemble the brushes lubricating all threads,springs,trigger and needle with WD 40.
The whole process takes about fifteen minutes per brush.
After the thorough job an airbrush should work like new. I've got one old Iwata that still sprays like the day I bought it,despite having lost most of the chrome from the paint cup!
One advantage of enamel paints is that they don't dry in the airbrush,at least not in minutes,most take hours,so there is never any rush.
There are many ways of skinning a cat and you'll have to work out what works best for you.
Cheers
Steve
During a project I only do a quick clean on my airbrushes. I'll flush them with white spirits (I use enamels),withdraw the needle and give it and the paint cup a good wipe before re-fitting the needle and giving the brush another flush. It takes about a minute.
I carry out the same routine between different colours.
After a project I completely dis-assemble any airbrushes used and give them a thorough clean including a brief soak of the airbrush body in cellulose thinners. I use the inter dental brushes to clean all the paint ways. I also chuck the whole lot in an ultrasonic cleaner and give it a good whizz.
I re-assemble the brushes lubricating all threads,springs,trigger and needle with WD 40.
The whole process takes about fifteen minutes per brush.
After the thorough job an airbrush should work like new. I've got one old Iwata that still sprays like the day I bought it,despite having lost most of the chrome from the paint cup!
One advantage of enamel paints is that they don't dry in the airbrush,at least not in minutes,most take hours,so there is never any rush.
There are many ways of skinning a cat and you'll have to work out what works best for you.
Cheers
Steve
G
Threw together a 'how to' strip / check your airbrush seals and needle packing video so you can see how to check if it has the relevant seal type to safely spray cellulose (lacquer) thinner.
Hope it's useful.
[video=youtube;g2aQtgzt4ZI]
Hope it's useful.
[video=youtube;g2aQtgzt4ZI]
G
I had "tabbed" this thread earlier in the day; could not read it then as had to go to the hydraulics vendor for compressor-fittings, "Big Box" hardware vendor for a couple of scrap-end 2 x 2's very cheap, plus a 6' piece of 2 x 3, to make legs for a "home-brew-starter" spray-booth (plus some flowers to aid the apartment environment in general, never understood before that some of those flowers are more than just decorative), plus to a stationer's to get actual fountain-pen ink (to practice with my Badger 100LF side-feed), and got home just a while ago. I've just read thru, and found everything here very, very helpful, as my air-system is going, and I had run some India-ink (the only ink I had on hand this afternoon) thru the brush earlier in the day.
Therefore the comment about ammonia solution, in particular, was well-taken; I found this on the side of the India-ink bottle: "Higgins Drawing Ink No. 4415 3/4 oz 23 c.c. To dilute add distilled water, with about four drops of aqua ammonia to the ounce. Use on cloth, paper." So, I now have a good basic idea of "what and how" to use for cleaning on that item.
I had picked up, but haven't tried out yet, some Opaque Createx Airbush Colors (unfortunately the local art-shoppe does not yet stock the Createx Illustrator's Base for proper diluting for fine tips, thus starting out with something I don't have to thin-down to practice with, ink). The local does not have their air-cure line of colors, either (regular Createx is heat-cured, and the paint department at the big-box advised an ordinary hair-drier rather than a 1,000W heat-gun meant for heavy-duty paint-stripping that they sell). The correct dilutant extends drying-time (as inside the airbrush nozzle as well), and does not thin the colors badly (specifically says "do not use water for diluting). All the cleaning info on the acryllics vs enamel, etc is therefore very helpful at this end.
I'm following all the information presented here carefully, as I've been wondering about all these issues since the brush arrived, and wondering about enamels (haven't used them in years as they are horrid with a hair-brush, I never had the dexterity for good finishing with them, so avoided enamels generally over the years), especially with the solvent and cleaning issues. I'm going to have to go back over this thread again tomorrow, to let it all sink in, and it couldn't have come round at a better time, as I'm just about to "jump in the pool"!
A Hearty Thank You All Round,
John
Therefore the comment about ammonia solution, in particular, was well-taken; I found this on the side of the India-ink bottle: "Higgins Drawing Ink No. 4415 3/4 oz 23 c.c. To dilute add distilled water, with about four drops of aqua ammonia to the ounce. Use on cloth, paper." So, I now have a good basic idea of "what and how" to use for cleaning on that item.
I had picked up, but haven't tried out yet, some Opaque Createx Airbush Colors (unfortunately the local art-shoppe does not yet stock the Createx Illustrator's Base for proper diluting for fine tips, thus starting out with something I don't have to thin-down to practice with, ink). The local does not have their air-cure line of colors, either (regular Createx is heat-cured, and the paint department at the big-box advised an ordinary hair-drier rather than a 1,000W heat-gun meant for heavy-duty paint-stripping that they sell). The correct dilutant extends drying-time (as inside the airbrush nozzle as well), and does not thin the colors badly (specifically says "do not use water for diluting). All the cleaning info on the acryllics vs enamel, etc is therefore very helpful at this end.
I'm following all the information presented here carefully, as I've been wondering about all these issues since the brush arrived, and wondering about enamels (haven't used them in years as they are horrid with a hair-brush, I never had the dexterity for good finishing with them, so avoided enamels generally over the years), especially with the solvent and cleaning issues. I'm going to have to go back over this thread again tomorrow, to let it all sink in, and it couldn't have come round at a better time, as I'm just about to "jump in the pool"!
A Hearty Thank You All Round,
John
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