discussion Vallejo Model Colour

[Guest]

Am I safe in assuming that Vallejo's colours are consistent over their range? I plan to paint my Dreadnought with a combination of brush and airbrush, and want to use Model Colour for the brushwork. Anybody have experiences with using both together?

 

[BarryW]

I have found that Model Colour looks different to the equivilent Model Air of supposedly the same colour. I believe this is more to do with how you apply the paint than the pigments. You can airbrush a colour and then touch up a patch with a brush and it is clear where the touch up is. Consequently I would not rely on both ranges looking the same.


Model Colour can be sprayed, heavily thinned but I would use a larger needle size as the pigments are not as fine as the Model Air.


Alternatively, I will spray some colours with Model Air and use the same paint with a brush for a smaller area. It does take a few coats brush painting but it does work.

 

[Guest]

Mmmm, suspected as much! It is a big ask, I know. Thanks!

 

[dave]

There is a slight difference I have noticed with a couple of Vallejo paints where I have both the model air and colour. But as Barry said you can quite happily brush paint the model air and I often do. I also thin the Model Colour for airbrushing and it is fine at 0.35 mm. But if there is a lot to spray I prefer to use the model air as an extra brush coat on a small area is less hassle than a lot of thinning.


The only proviso I would add is brush painting Model Air colours like yellow can take a lot of coats, but I presume you are mainly talking greys.


If there is a slight difference it may be possible to use it to your advantage to give a little subtle variation in the colour

 

[Guest]

Right! Now, call me Mr Picky, but I'm sure I can detect a slight variation in these two colours, both Vallejo, both called "Sand Yellow".


Can anyone else see this?


View attachment 118619



The left one is Model Colour 70.916, the right one Model Air 71.028


I'm struggling to understand the indexing system, when combined with names - surely, surely, if you're going to call on paint "Sand Yellow", you'd want the alternative paint of the same name to be, I dunno, similar? They're not even the same Hue, I separated them in Photoshop and reduced the saturation in the bright one, and it never went near the left one! So, if I want the same colour in "Model Colour", I have to find another colour that is similar, i.e. I'm shafted!


Thankfully, as Barry pointed out, "ModelAir" brushes pretty well. It's the principal of the thing that staggers me.


...and breathe!

View attachment 231641

 

[Guest]

Tell me about it John! Back in my dark days of dabbling with acrylics, I bought a Model Air ' Yellow Ochre '... sprayed it & it came out Olive Green!

 

[Guest]

Well, as I have decided to commit to brush painting from now on (I just enjoy the process much, much more, and it avoids the often head-spinning planning on what I can paint and when) I have to say I am really tempted to go back to enamels. I still spray primer - but that's a rattle can these days - harder finish and the right colour - and there will be the odd occasion when I get the airbrush out, but I just love painting! I have a collection of Tamiya and Vallejo acrylics (and dread to think what I've spent on them) and if somebody said to me I could only have one make, it'd be Tamiya, no contest, purely because of their predictability in use! Some Vallejo colours are great to use, and some suck. I also hate the minuscule timespan of the "workability" of acrylics - even with retarder, there is a time window when they look fine to continue with, but actually, the cure has already commenced, and this leads to me stripping the wallpaper with my well-honed profanity.


As I usually have 2 or 3 models on the go, slow drying isn't a bother for me at all.


Rant over

 

[Guest]

John your worries are over. Part of them anyway.


http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/media/0049261608364909a238add9b4a53745.cms/cc073-rev05.pdf


Gives charts for numerous paints and equivalents for those that match Model or Model air.


Also gives charts for Model Air to Model equivalents. Not forgetting that not all Model Air


colours are produced in Model and vice versa. Very handy data.


Two problems in matching even though the same colour in air and Model.


Model is thicker and therefore much more opaque.


Model Air is thinner and a bit more translucent


Take a bottle of each and the weight difference can be seen.


Also all to do with the above. Even using the same paint from the


same bottle hand painting and airbrushing will give what appears to


be a different colour.


A hand brushed coat will be thicker than an airbrushed coat. The


background will have more effect on the airbrushed than hand painted.


Opaque to translucent effect.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

Understand all that, but my underlying worry is the actual pigments Laurie, as you know, I've been around paints all my life, all I ask is that the pigments be the same across all the colours of that name, with this simple rule, I am able to work, knowing that despite different extensions (ratio of pigment to medium) I am working with a colour that, once sufficient coats are applied, will look the same!


But also notice my points about working windows of paints, and this is a bigger issue for me, or at least, my enjoyment of this hobby. Those colour comparison chards surely have their uses, and are a great guide to whats out there, but I crave a quality printed chart, its like comparing photographic slides to prints, the fact that one is, by its nature, illuminated, makes them appear very different.


As I've always said, the perfect colour chart will be made from the actual paint in question, and whatever paint I settle on, I will make one for my own personal reference! Rambled on a bit, sorry!

 

[Guest]

The pigments size in model air and model is different so their will again be the transparency and opaque difference.


. But apart form that I doubt you will ever match exactly as the opaque and trnslucent question arise with the back ground.


As you are hand painting this will be of help. It is from their Q & A download.


It is you day again John. Vallejo actually produce hand made charts.


Laurie


View attachment 118709


View attachment 231731

 

[Guest]

Ooh, thats interesting, you got a link for this?

 

[Alan 45]

The reason any paint differs in colour if you spray or brush is simply due to thickness , you you brush paint you put a thicker coat on than if you spray it on, so if you get a patch that needs touching up ( flashing ) and you just brush that area it will show ,


John you have a choice of one or the other you can't spray and brush together that's with all paints not just model paints

 

[Guest]

The pigments size in model air and model is different so their will again be the transparency and opaque difference.
. But apart form that I doubt you will ever match exactly as the opaque and trnslucent question arise with the back ground.


As you are hand painting this will be of help. It is from their Q & A download.


It is you day again John. Vallejo actually produce hand made charts.


Laurie


View attachment 130327

Today I mostly bought Vallejo flow improve at scale Scotland. I bought the second smallest bottle as I don't use much Vallejo ... Yet. Just primer. I may only need it for my airbrush now as well because I will use my spray gun for bigger items.


Cheers for your advice and I hope it helps

 

[Guest]

Today I mostly bought Vallejo flow improve at scale Scotland. I bought the second smallest bottle as I don't use much Vallejo ... Yet. Just primer. I may only need it for my airbrush now as well because I will use my spray gun for bigger items.
Cheers for your advice and I hope it helps

One thing you can try Dougie. They say up to 25% flow improver. Quite handy I have found if you are airbrushing effects. Cuts down the amount of paint spewing out which gives better control especially as you can bring the PSI down in turn, the paint is so thin, also cutting the paint flow right down. Been using this method at 10psi.


Laurie

 

[takeslousyphotos]

I find "Model Air" brushes superbly John........... In my opinion, I find it better for brushing than Model Colour........ So you need two coats, but then it's thinner........... and I find it leaves a far better surface finish.

 

[Guest]

One thing you can try Dougie. They say up to 25% flow improver. Quite handy I have found if you are airbrushing effects. Cuts down the amount of paint spewing out which gives better control especially as you can bring the PSI down in turn, the apit is so thin, also cutting the paint flow right down. Been using this method at 10psi.
Laurie

Cheers mate will try when I get on to some armour or aircraft with Vallejo paints. I've got Alclad and Tamiya for the cars the now

 

[Razzie43]

Hi all,i just want to say i never use the colour i see always mix with white or with a dark colour.


I never like what's in the jar they sell to me.


And you better start with a very light colour then with they original one.(for weathering only)


GL & HF

 

[Guest]

My preferred way now is to find the nearest base colour, cover the model with it, - brush, airbrush, it makes little difference - then adjust the colour with filters, this way you not only have complete control over the final colour, you have a surface that is complex and organic in its structure, having many almost transparent coats of varying colours. Once this has been achieved, pin washes and streaking etc can be applied. I've tried this on my new Panzer KPF lll, in fact, the primer colour was nearly ok to work over, but in the end I gave it a dusting with a slightly deeper grey model -air, then filtered it (and am still fine tuning it) to my desired colour. You can see the original colour on a few of the upturned wheels in the foreground!View attachment 122724



Still loads to do, but a thoroughly pleasant work-flow developing for me, and all oils or enamel based brush work once the base coat is done.

View attachment 235615

 

[Guest]

For me John I do not have a standard way of doing things. Never been a standard type always reaching for


something new changing to hopefully improve. I can frustrate myself at times in this approach but


generally it has suited me and my character well. Think this is perhaps part character and part a life


time in architecture where nothing stands still with innovation being paramount. It is rare that I take


the same approach twice.


For me a lot depends on the type of model whether it is winged aircraft, soft top type or helicopters.


All need a different approach including the complication of scale.


All further complicated by the environment in which the model is finished. Out of the factory, in the


Afrikan desert, Germany, Afganistan, Iraq and Britain as WW11. Each has a different need which


for me dictates the approach.


One thing which amazes me is the number of different techniques which we all use and adapt as


our own means. On top of the above is the method adopted dictated by the type of media used plus


also brush or airbrush. Not surprising that this is a fascinating hobby.


I loved watching Flory, when I started out, doing his tutorials which I learnt a lot from and thought


that is it. Then went off and adapted and developed these to my own way of working.


Laurie