discussion Washes?

[BBdave]

Are washes just as good if I thin standard paint or am I better to use commercial washes?


Dave

 

[PaulTRose]

i always use enamel paint thinned with white spirit


ive tried a few bought washes and still find myself going back to making them myself........Citadel wargames washes are ok, didnt get on with humbrols at all, too thick.....always wanted to try the Florys so cant vouch for it

 

[Guest]

Same! Why pay when what you already have is available & just the same as a commercial wash?


There's nothing in them except paint & thinner

 

[john i am]

I've tried ink washes(ink water and flow improver) homemade by myself all these branded ones citadel humbrol vallejo and Florys washes and I have now found the "one" for me and it's the Florys followed by from best to worst IMHO citadel vallejo humbrol and my own homebrew wash I hope you find one that suits you but it can be a bit of a lottery.

 

[Guest]

I just make my own and have been for years. You can start with black then add some brown to the mix then a bit of grey etc as you go along. To be fair it is mainly station buildings where I use washes and no walls are all the same colour of dirt or rust etc .


I also use soot from our coal fire.


I would say that if you already have paints then make your own washes.

 

[Guest]

Dave washes are just thinned paint.


I suspect that commercial washes in the water based paints have an additive.


If you place a small pool of water on a table top it has rounded corners as the


water hangs together. Place, similarly, a pool of thinners from Vallejo Lifecolor etc


and the thinners collapses it does not form the water type blob.


Indicates if Waterbased you use the manufacturers thinners. This is a good


reason for using the manufacturers thinners rather than water. Coverage and


also smooth paints finishes are obtainable.


Also why it is best to use the manufacturers cleaner to clean your airbrush.


With water there is a sticky cohesion a surface tension. With airbrush cleaner


there is not it flows unrestricted (mostly).


ie the water will run over the paint to be removed in an airbrush. The cleaner


will attach to the paint and thin and thereby remove it.


Laurie

 

[BBdave]

Thanks I have mixed my own up till now I just thought maybe I'd try a commercial one incase there was something magical in them but I may continue with what I'm doing.


I think I'll get some oils and experiment with them.


Dave

 

[Guest]

If you want to make your own, I'd use enamel, thinned to your taste. I use artists oil paints and white spirit a lot, but it does separate very quickly, and needs constant stirring. Enamels seem to mix better with thinners so that'd make more sense from a purely practical sense. Flory's washes are excellent, but you do need to fix them down, or they'll just wear off, and fixing them can raise issues such as colour change. For my most recent build, I've been using AK products, which I find are fantastic, and can be further thinned to make brilliant filters. They are also pliable enough after an hour or so to make alterations to, using thinner.


Edited to add: the only ones I'd avoid is Vallejo acrylic ones, purely on the basis that they dry far too quickly and if you miss an overspill (easily done on a complex model) you are pretty much stuck with it! I guess some folks find them ok, but I regret spending on them personally!

 

[BBdave]

When you say fix them do you mean a coat of clear coat between washes then a final Matt over the finished model


Dave

 

[Guest]

the only ones I'd avoid is Vallejo acrylic ones, purely on the basis that they dry far too quickly and if you miss an overspill (easily done on a complex model) you are pretty much stuck with it!

John if you use with Vallejo acrylics the flow improver you will not have this problem.


I use about 25% you can also if you wish, I do not need to, use a retarder.


One advantage of water based acrylics, I find, is the ability to remove with just water


with a brush or tissue an offending piece or some which has not gone as expected.


Acrylics will keep removable for about 10 mins even on top of an acrylic base with


out a varnish coat. Used this technique on my Merlin and it worked for me and that


was pre Vallejo Flow improver. It is essential though to make sure the base paint is


absolutely cured. My was probably left 4 days as I had other bits to attend to just a


matter of logistics to fit things in


I do have the Vallejo range of washes but find that Lifecolor paint makes into a better


wash for me.


On final coats of varnish I find wreck any pigments which you wish to accentuate.


The varnish looses that fresh look of sticking sand. But it depends on what you


want in finish and we all have our ways (some disastrous oh yes).


Finally not knocking (this is really for Patrick) enamels as I have no knowledge other


than the first aircraft I ever built.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

Just thought John you are using hand brushing which is very different to airbrushing.


For instance I would not have a coat wet enough with a wash to pool whereas with


hand brushing I would think, form my architectural rendering with brush, you have


a wetter application.


My experience above is based on Airbrushing entirely.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

Trouble is, 10 minutes is nothing, when you're doing all the nooks and crannies of your average tank, and, for me a non-starter. Plus, and this is a bigger issue, oil based washes just flow better, and even if you do miss a bit, they tend to feather at the edge naturally, rather than leavening a hard edge like the acrylic ones. If you use odourless thinners, they don't whiff as much either.

 

[Guest]

Just thought John you are using hand brushing which is very different to airbrushing.
For instance I would not have a coat wet enough with a wash to pool whereas with


hand brushing I would think, form my architectural rendering with brush, you have


a wetter application.


My experience above is based on Airbrushing entirely.


Laurie

Laurie I'm confused! What does airbrushing have to do with applying a wash? I'd always use a brush, but is this some new technique?

 

[Guest]

Just thought John you are using hand brushing which is very different to airbrushing.
For instance I would not have a coat wet enough with a wash to pool whereas with


hand brushing I would think, form my architectural rendering with brush, you have


a wetter application.


My experience above is based on Airbrushing entirely.


Laurie

You airbrush washes on??

 

[Guest]

You airbrush washes on??

That's what's got me confused! Perhaps I've misunderstood what Laurie is saying ....

 

[Guest]

Laurie I'm confused! What does airbrushing have to do with applying a wash? I'd always use a brush, but is this some new technique?

You airbrush washes on??

From the Vallejo site


Reproducing the weathering of surfaces exposed to harsh climatic conditions is difficult to achieve and the washes offer the perfect solution.


View attachment 123693

For armor, vehicles, planes, ship, figures and war game figures. All surfaces exposed to sun, wind and dust, rain and snow, experience a change in color, a loss of intensity, a dulling and general fading which however is not even or overall. For the model painter, these changes in color are very difficult to reproduce, and to achieve these effects on a model, washes or filters are the perfect solution.

The washes are always needed to blend the edges of the colors on a model painted in various camouflage shades. The colors can also be mixed together to achieve further variations of shade and can be used with airbrush or brush, according to the model and the effect desired.


Model Wash can be mixed with pigments to achieve a wide range of effects such as oil and flaked rust, mud, earth, dust, moss, etc. and when mixed with acrylic colors, they further help achieve the impact of heavy wear and weathering.


The washed have been formulated with a modified acrylic resin so that the superficial tension is similar to that of the traditional solvent-based washes and filters, but with the advantage of working with a water-based medium. Average drying time is around 20 minutes. If several layers of wash are to be applied, it is best to wait around 40 minutes between applications. Painting tools are cleaned with water.


More info about Vallejo Washes from Vallejo. Tips and tricks http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/6dc6aaca38d2d0e710c5fd3094baf236/model-wash-tips-by-scratchmod-25092014-1.pdf


Vallejo Q & A on the subject.


8.10. Can


i


airbrush the washes?


Yes, both the Game Washes and the new Model Washes are airbrush


ready, they are transparent, water-based acrylic colors which do not


contain solvents; they both carry the ASTM health label certification.


Laurie Airbrush

View attachment 236584

 

[BBdave]

I thought the idea was to leave washes to dry then wipe off excess I watched some tutorials and this is what they seem to do but I guess I need to do more research on the subject.


Dave

 

[Guest]

I airbrush with flory`s washes all the time , mainly with the concrete and sand colours , its perfect for a dusty affect and being a water based clay formula you can wipe it of with a damp swab or cloth if your not happy , another bonus once applied a quick blast with a hairdryer its dry in seconds .


I have a few vallejo washes but not over keen on these , apart from flory`s washes MIG washes are great and work for me .


Richy

 

[BarryW]

I have to agree that the Flory washes are excellent used as a 'sludge wash'. Applied over a glossed surface they can be wiped off and manipulated to create whatever effect you want.


For pin washes I like the AK enamel washes and I am using these more and more. They have sets specifically formulated for different coloured camo panel lines plus sets for undercarriages, engines, dust effects etc.

 

[Guest]

What absolute rubbish!! How in God's name can a wash be applied with an airbrush?


The point of a wash is to give depth by filling in panel lines, nooks & crannies etc - using an AB would just blow the wash all over the place! Plus you'd spend way more time cleaning the excess up - with an acrylic it'd be dry before you'd got anywhere!


And what is this continual need for everything to be done quickly? Has patience been abolished?


If I apply a wash, I do it with a 000 brush & allow capillary action to take it where it needs to go. Precisely & effectively. Usually the only area of clean up is a small area from the initial application.


If I want a quick drying wash, I use lighter fluid as the thinning medium.


Jeez, stuff like this gets my goat!