discussion Wingy thing question

[Lee W]

Guys, some knowledge required, I'm in for doing a D-Day group build elsewhere and thought about using one of two Spitfires I have but... in the group they said all variants were used in the D-Day invasion, is this right?! We're the Mk Vb and Mk 1a used?
Any help would be grateful, I know someone here will know... thanks people :smiling:

 

[AlanG]

Spitfire Mk.Vb (late),Vc, VII, IXc, IXe, PR Mk.XIX were used.

 

[Geoffers]

Hello Lee

I’m pretty sure no Mk.I Spitfires were used on D-Day they were pretty much obsolete by then.
A few Mk.Vb were in secondary roles such as artillery spotting for the Navy or as Air Sea Rescue search planes.

Geoff.

 

[Lee W]

Oops sorry guys, I've got the MkVa :rolling:... OK going on what @AlanG and @Geoffers have said, would there be and modifications needed for the 1944 timeline?

 

[Lee W]

After a trip to the Midlands yesterday and a visit to the RAF museum, I have my answers... the Mk Va was used during the D-Day invasion, as photo reconnaissance so I can go ahead now and bash this thing together :smiling3:

 

[Miko]

After a trip to the Midlands yesterday and a visit to the RAF museum, I have my answers... the Mk Va was used during the D-Day invasion, as photo reconnaissance so I can go ahead now and bash this thing together :smiling3:

I never heard of an RAF mark V recce spitfire? I think the South African air force converted theirs with an F95 behind the cockpit, but they would have been tropicalized, RAF mark V's were converted with a pressurised cockpit with longer wing tips and re titled mark VI.

So I'll follow this one with interest, never knew mark V's were still operational in mid 1944

Miko ( a mark VI is easily converted from a mark V, and some of the LF versions were 'pink')

 

[Lee W]

I never heard of an RAF mark V recce spitfire? I think the South African air force converted theirs with an F95 behind the cockpit, but they would have been tropicalized, RAF mark V's were converted with a pressurised cockpit with longer wing tips and re titled mark VI.

So I'll follow this one with interest, never knew mark V's were still operational in mid 1944

Miko ( a mark VI is easily converted from a mark V, and some of the LF versions were 'pink')

I'm only going by what the guys said at the museum, they certainly know more about them than what I do!

 

[Waspie]

I never heard of an RAF mark V recce spitfire? I think the South African air force converted theirs with an F95 behind the cockpit, but they would have been tropicalized, RAF mark V's were converted with a pressurised cockpit with longer wing tips and re titled mark VI.

So I'll follow this one with interest, never knew mark V's were still operational in mid 1944

Miko ( a mark VI is easily converted from a mark V, and some of the LF versions were 'pink')

Excuse my ignorance! LF?

 

[Miko]

I'm only going by what the guys said at the museum, they certainly know more about them than what I do!

Yep, you're right, what you said intrigued me so I had to investigate and indeed mark V Spitfires were operational on D Day! Some of which were used in pairs to act as 'spotters' for the fall of shot from naval bombardment. as seen here.

View attachment 510436

It's a typical mark V, 45 series Merlin, Rotol propeller, external bulletproof windscreen, 5 spoke wheels and a circular rear view mirror!
I'm interested in which kit you have that's a mark Va? there were very few Va's, the 'B type wing with it's 20mm cannon superceded the 'a version in early 1941, I'm guessing it's one flown by Douglas Bader who preferred the eight .303 Brownings of the 'a wing

Miko (spitfire geek)

 

[Miko]

Excuse my ignorance! LF?

Yep, the Battle of Britain memorial flight have one of those, an LF V with a 'B type wing, there's very little difference between a mark II and mark V, a slightly more powerful engine and prop with other detail differences such as larger under wing oil cooler

Miko (don't quote me I doing this from memory!)

 

[Waspie]

Yep, the Battle of Britain memorial flight have one of those, an LF V with a 'B type wing, there's very little difference between a mark II and mark V, a slightly more powerful engine and prop with other detail differences such as larger under wing oil cooler

Miko (don't quote me I doing this from memory!)

Still non the wiser regards what LF refers to/means!!!!

 

[Miko]

Still non the wiser regards what LF refers to/means!!!!

LF, low flight, the wings were clipped by 4' (I think) which improved their roll rate below 10,000 feet

HF, high flight, extended wing span with addition of 4' (-ish!) to improve performance up beyond 25,000 feet to intercept high flying Ju88p recce bombers

Not sure the mark V were HF, the mark VI were 'all' HF with a primitive cockpit pressurisation in which the pilot was 'sealed' into the cockpit!

Miko (stretching the memory box now! haven't build a Spitfire for yonks!)

 

[Lee W]

Yep, you're right, what you said intrigued me so I had to investigate and indeed mark V Spitfires were operational on D Day! Some of which were used in pairs to act as 'spotters' for the fall of shot from naval bombardment. as seen here.

View attachment 510436

It's a typical mark V, 45 series Merlin, Rotol propeller, external bulletproof windscreen, 5 spoke wheels and a circular rear view mirror!
I'm interested in which kit you have that's a mark Va? there were very few Va's, the 'B type wing with it's 20mm cannon superceded the 'a version in early 1941, I'm guessing it's one flown by Douglas Bader who preferred the eight .303 Brownings of the 'a wing

Miko (spitfire geek)

Miko, it'll be the Airfix kit, yes I'll have to work it but I guess we'll see how it goes

 

[Waspie]

LF, low flight, the wings were clipped by 4' (I think) which improved their roll rate below 10,000 feet

HF, high flight, extended wing span with addition of 4' (-ish!) to improve performance up beyond 25,000 feet to intercept high flying Ju88p recce bombers

Not sure the mark V were HF, the mark VI were 'all' HF with a primitive cockpit pressurisation in which the pilot was 'sealed' into the cockpit!

Miko (stretching the memory box now! haven't build a Spitfire for yonks!)

Ah, much wiser now.
Amazing, 25 years in aviation and never heard the term HF & LF in relation to performance. Radios - yes! But never performance. We’ll, every days a school day!:thumb2::smiling2:

 

[The Smythe Meister]

Ah, much wiser , well,every days a school day....

.... Not if it was a Borstal mate!! :tears-of-joy: :tears-of-joy:

 

[Miko]

Miko, it'll be the Airfix kit, yes I'll have to work it but I guess we'll see how it goes

Provided it has black and white invasion stripes I doubt many would notice, or mention it!

Looking forward to see how you get on, the jury is still out for me with recent Airfix kits.

We’ll, every days a school day!:thumb2::smiling2:

Sure is! wouldn't have it any other way!

Miko (Learn to test, Test to learn - the moto of the Empire Test Pilot School)

 

[A_J_Rimmer]

I'll be interested to see where you go with this, as I can't imagine there were many original configuration MK.Va's still operational by mid-1944 - certainly not in the ETO anyway, as they would be far outclassed by most other types by that point. As others have said, many Vbs and Vc's appear to have been used in secondary roles such as spotting and SAR, or OCU, so it's not hard to stretch the imagination to see a Va in that role - as I said, I'm looking forward to seeing were you go with it and what you come up with.

If they were converted to a PR type, then I'm pretty certain, looking through my ref books, that they would have either had the guns removed and the wing converted to a PR type wing with bigger tanks, or would have received a B or C wing. I don't think I've ever read anywhere of a PR or FR Spitfire with .303 only armament but hey, I'm more than happy to learn something new!

I don't suppose the lads in the museum gave you any references?

 

[A_J_Rimmer]

This is quite an interesting Thread - https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235126533-d-day-spitfire-vbc-participation/

 

[Airborne01]

.... Not if it was a Borstal mate!! :tears-of-joy: :tears-of-joy:

I learnt lots ...
Steve

 

[Lee W]

I'll be interested to see where you go with this, as I can't imagine there were many original configuration MK.Va's still operational by mid-1944 - certainly not in the ETO anyway, as they would be far outclassed by most other types by that point. As others have said, many Vbs and Vc's appear to have been used in secondary roles such as spotting and SAR, or OCU, so it's not hard to stretch the imagination to see a Va in that role - as I said, I'm looking forward to seeing were you go with it and what you come up with.

If they were converted to a PR type, then I'm pretty certain, looking through my ref books, that they would have either had the guns removed and the wing converted to a PR type wing with bigger tanks, or would have received a B or C wing. I don't think I've ever read anywhere of a PR or FR Spitfire with .303 only armament but hey, I'm more than happy to learn something new!

I don't suppose the lads in the museum gave you any references?

No it was word of mouth from an old crab fat who had served 16 years... all those years ago!
I did double check and question again the Mk Va and he said yes, photo reconnaissance?! Modifications? Just openings for cameras! Nothing was mentioned about weaponry.
I suppose it was like taking a knife to a gunfight?!