Finding the squadrons 'ID' letter of a plane

[GerryW]

How would folks go about finding the 'ID' letter of a WW2 Hurricane - I've most records relating to it, but this is the one piece of info I'm missing, I've possibly already got it, as I've a record of a signal number regarding the incident with the letter 'S' as a prefix - would that be it? (I know nothing about how RAF signals were recorded)

[stona]

I take it you are seeking this aircraft's individual identification letter.

They can be tricky because a letter would have been used on several aircraft (obviously not at the same time) and some aircraft changed their identification letter whilst at a squadron.

Operations Record Books and pilots' log books will usually record an aircraft by its serial number rather than its squadron ID letter for these reasons. The same applies to an aircraft's movement card and any other official correspondence regarding it. The serial number was supposed to be unique to an aircraft throughout its life (and usually was). I would bet that the records that you have use that number. You may get lucky and find that someone used the ID letter in conjunction with the serial number.

Quite often the only way we can reconcile the squadron ID letter with a particular aircraft is by finding a suitable photograph. Otherwise some squadron diarists and pilots occasionally refer to an aircraft by its squadron letter or even complete code (AB-C).

[GerryW]

I take it you are seeking this aircraft's individual identification letter.

They can be tricky because a letter would have been used on several aircraft (obviously not at the same time) and some aircraft changed their identification letter whilst at a squadron.

Operations Record Books and pilots' log books will usually record an aircraft by its serial number rather than its squadron ID letter for these reasons. The same applies to an aircraft's movement card and any other official correspondence regarding it. The serial number was supposed to be unique to an aircraft throughout its life (and usually was). I would bet that the records that you have use that number. You may get lucky and find that someone used the ID letter in conjunction with the serial number.

Quite often the only way we can reconcile the squadron ID letter with a particular aircraft is by finding a suitable photograph. Otherwise some squadron diarists and pilots occasionally refer to an aircraft by its squadron letter or even complete code (AB-C).

Yes, got the airframe number, squadron letters, but missing the individual letter, I've checked the squadron records, they all refer to the airframe no. so looking like it's going to be a long search - has been anyway. It was only when I was going through the paperwork that I've accumulated, that I spotted the message reference on the accident report form, and wondered if it could possibly have been the preceding letter - reason I thought that, would be that it would identify the source of the message, rather than a report from another plane?

[stona]

What is the context of the 'S' in the message?

I would have thought it would have to be specifically a reference to the aircraft in question, and probably linked to the serial to be relevant..

[Guest]

Are you trying to find the letter of one specific aircraft that you want to build with accurate markings? Because if not, you can just pick any plausible letter.

[GerryW]

What is the context of the 'S' in the message?

I would have thought it would have to be specifically a reference to the aircraft in question, and probably linked to the serial to be relevant..

Hopefully the scan will show - it's the 'signal number' (circled in red)

Are you trying to find the letter of one specific aircraft that you want to build with accurate markings? Because if not, you can just pick any plausible letter.

Yes, Jakko, it's a specific aircraft

[stona]

I'm certain that the S does not refer to the aircraft.

It's an awkward date. It doesn't help that apart from a few detached flights the squadron didn't fight the Battle of France. I've just looked through dozens of photos from the first few months of 1940, not one of a 56 Squadron aircraft!

[GerryW]

I'm certain that the S does not refer to the aircraft.

It's an awkward date. It doesn't help that apart from a few detached flights the squadron didn't fight the Battle of France. I've just looked through dozens of photos from the first few months of 1940, not one of a 56 Squadron aircraft!

Oh well, was just a thought! Thanks for looking - I've just the one photo (not too brilliant one at that), but that was from April 1940 (over North Weald) which is too late for this plane. It had only been with the squadron for just over 6 months (came as a replacement on 12/6/39 under authority 14754) before crashing - but as you can see the night/white goes up to the spinners & looks to go right to the rear, as opposed to some squadrons who only had under the wings painted.

[stona]

I haven't checked the ORB (Form 541) which should be freely available in TNA, but I would not expect it to shed any light. If you haven't looked I'll check it in the morning.

[GerryW]

I haven't checked the ORB (Form 541) which should be freely available in TNA, but I would not expect it to shed any light. If you haven't looked I'll check it in the morning.

Have got access to form 540, but nothing in there.

[prichrd1]

Gerry,

Short 19 second video.
56 Squadron

Picture 1 - copy right exists so link here :-
Aircraft 1

Aircraft 2

Aircraft 3

History -

Accident

Book cover:-

Cover
Scroll down the page to see the book cover)
How accurate it is I have no idea!! :smiling:

HTH,

Paul.
:smiling:

[adt70hk]

Gerry,

Hope can work it out. I had a similar conundrum last year but was able to get to the bottom of it in the end – at least in my satisfaction.

Good luck.

Andrew

They can be tricky because a letter would have been used on several aircraft (obviously not at the same time) and some aircraft changed their identification letter whilst at a squadron.

Steve

Thanks for this little titbit of information. I came to this conclusion myself when doing some research on a Mosquito, although I couldn’t find any confirmation of it happening in general and in my case in particular. It’s therefore good to have it confirmed that it could happen on occasion.

All the best.

Andrew

[GerryW]

Gerry,

Short 19 second video.
56 Squadron

Picture 1 - copy right exists so link here :-
Aircraft 1

Aircraft 2

Aircraft 3

History -

Accident

Book cover:-

Cover
Scroll down the page to see the book cover)
How accurate it is I have no idea!! :smiling:

HTH,

Paul.
:smiling:

Thanks Paul, the pilot was Mr Cooney (came from Rhos Robin in Denbyshire) and his injury was a broken nose. Unfortunately, the lady that we knew and who was an eye-witness has passed away.

[GerryW]

Gerry,

Hope can work it out. I had a similar conundrum last year but was able to get to the bottom of it in the end – at least in my satisfaction.

Good luck.

Andrew


Steve

Thanks for this little titbit of information. I came to this conclusion myself when doing some research on a Mosquito, although I couldn’t find any confirmation of it happening in general and in my case in particular. It’s therefore good to have it confirmed that it could happen on occasion.

All the best.

Andrew

Yes Andrew, I'm hoping to get there - it's just going to be a long while I'm afraid. Worst thing that'll happen, is that I'll do the dio without decals.

[adt70hk]

Yes Andrew, I'm hoping to get there - it's just going to be a long while I'm afraid. Worst thing that'll happen, is that I'll do the dio without decals.

It is frustrating isn't it. I spent hours on it in my case as it's a well documented and photographed aircraft but there was conflicting info on what the plane ID was. Good luck.

ATB.

Andrew