Lest We Forget

[Tim Marlow]

Just read through this thread again and have a question. A recurring theme from many is that “this history is no longer taught in schools”. A question is how many of you were actually taught about any of this at school? I was at school through the sixties and seventies and was never taught anything about wars or battles except in the abstract terms of political events. We were taught more about the corn laws than we were about the Second World War, and at that time a lot of our teachers would have been veterans. I suppose what I’m saying is that ignorance of these events certainly isn’t a modern thing, and it isn’t a failure of the education system because in my experience that type of history has never been part of the curriculum. On the other hand, prime time TV at the time had major series like The Great War, and World at war for those that were interested, and there were functioning libraries that were well stocked with historical texts that could be borrowed. These days TV is limited to soaps and (un)reality shows, and libraries are hanging by a thread, so perhaps some of the blame lies with our generation for allowing this dumbing down to happen unchallenged? Not trying to attack or annoy anyone, just thinking aloud really.

[Waspie]

Short vid of the memorial jump from the BBC News site.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cqlvd41pnk7o

[Airborne01]

Trouble is, Steve, it was never going to work the way it was planned. The Brits were dropped too far away and were too weak to hold the initial objectives, and XXX corp were battle fatigued and unlikely to be able to push through as fast as the timetable required. We need to remember the lost with pride. However, we should also remember those that planned this operation should have been sacked afterwards for poor performance. Arrogance and overconfidence in commanding generals has probably killed more of their soldiers than the opposing armies.

Agreed mate - planning by persons who are not operators inevitably leads to failure unfortunately. Throw some self-serving egos into the mix and the butchers bill rises disproportionately alas

[Tim Marlow]

Sounds like little has changed. It seems underestimation of ones opponents is still about. Viet Nam and the Falklands. I believe the Americans didn't count on the 'farmers' of Viet Nam's resolve and the Argentinian hierarchy certainly threw snake eyes when they thought they could ride rough shod over the UK.

Yep, and the very recent Russian advance on Kiev is yet another example, as was the Austrian generalship at Konnigratz, the French generalship at Sedan, Lee’s generalship leading to Pickett’s charge at Gettysburg, Custer’s last stand, Charge of the light brigade, etc, etc, etc,…..there are far too many of them and they all result in the loss of soldiers for little or no gain….

[Steve Ski]

Excellent topic, Steve. Not too many adults have a clue either.

I hear ya, Tim, but our cultures, western, have shifted their attention to less important things, so there ain't no chance any of the kids today would hear of this unless they did some digging themselves. We homeschooled all our kids and some of our grandkids are being taught in the same manner now and they all get a good lick of miltary history. It's too improtant for them to not know where we all have been, tells us where we are going.

Those books look great for my library. Thanks for mentioning those, Gents!

[Valeron]

Just read through this thread again and have a question. A recurring theme from many is that “this history is no longer taught in schools”. A question is how many of you were actually taught about any of this at school? I was at school through the sixties and seventies and was never taught anything about wars or battles except in the abstract terms of political events. We were taught more about the corn laws than we were about the Second World War, and at that time a lot of our teachers would have been veterans. I suppose what I’m saying is that ignorance of these events certainly isn’t a modern thing, and it isn’t a failure of the education system because in my experience that type of history has never been part of the curriculum. On the other hand, prime time TV at the time had major series like The Great War, and World at war for those that were interested, and there were functioning libraries that were well stocked with historical texts that could be borrowed. These days TV is limited to soaps and (un)reality shows, and libraries are hanging by a thread, so perhaps some of the blame lies with our generation for allowing this dumbing down to happen unchallenged? Not trying to attack or annoy anyone, just thinking aloud really.

True Tim.

I was born in 1966 and don't recall being taught anything about any war really other than The Arab Israeli conflict, which was part of my O Level history which I took in 1982.

I think I for all my education was from from comics and old war films and World at War, shown on TV, and later reading books.

I think maybe because of our hobby, We know far more about it than most other people our own ages, not because of what we learnt at school.

[Airborne01]

My wife is the Headteacher of an East London Primary School; they teach WW2 but mainly at Remembrance and because it's relevant to the area. There are the Romans of course, but as she says it's impossible to cover all aspects of history, so the most they can do is engender a founding and abiding interest
Steve

[BattleshipBob]

I read a comment a few yrs ago ( can't remember who said it ) that the problem in the UK is we were thankfully not occupied. So we did not experience the knock on the door, deportations and of course concentration camps. European countries of course did and of course are far more grateful for liberation. On the BBC they followed a wonderful veteran on his return to Arnhem, a lady poked her head into the taxi and thanked him for her freedom that brought a tear to my eye.

[Guest]

None Political Comment
Born in 1948 and left school at 15... During that time ALL English (British) history was taught up to the Korean war. Among our weekly/daily lessons would be Maths, English, RE, PT and of course History....
And not going political - It appears that through the so called Lefties our English history and culture are slowly being eroded to satisfy some crazy idea that everything we did or touched is wrong/was wrong...
And yet this country through history has given the world the Industrial revolution, steam trains, metal ships, the carrier angled deck and steam catapaults. We have left our legacy all over the world, Democracy, Justice, Policing, Military training, Politics and we even abolished slavery.
During my long time in the armed forces if I was in the UK I would be part of the Trooping of the Colour, Street Lining for important Dignatories from abroad and most importantly paying our respects to those who died before us, or even those we know who are no longer with us at the Cenotaph.
But today we see our streets being taken over by those that have never been to war, never been in a conflict except to get their Latte first, but are quite happy to destroy what we have built and demand others do the same even though they do not have a clue about what it is they are protesting about, but just join in because it is 'the thing to do' and Henrietta has done it so I will wear the scarf as it is now fashionable and climb onto those horrid war memorials.... But dare you to show the Union flag and it is a swift trip in the back of a van courtesy of our two-tier police....
And who is to blame for this culling of our culture, who is pandering to the Lefties/Wokies/Liberals - the politicians, and in the last ten or so weeks we have seen it come to the fore.
As I said this is not a political comment, it is an observation of important background/history and not what is put out on tiktok etc. The children today should have their iphones removed and start to use the computer between their ears, those orbs each side of their nose, the library and read, read ,read and the teachers we have should be made to teach and not lecture on irrelevant subjects.
As Lee Anderson MP, said the other day - when they reach the age of 18 then let them decide.....

[Airborne01]

Same age, same background, same educational founding
Steve

[Steve Ski]

Mike, very eloquent and completely spot on, couldn't have said it better😉

[Waspie]

I once did a schools liaison visit to a large Grammar School up North. We flew in, met by the teachers and then had the school leavers who were interested tours of the helicopter.
We were hosted by the teachers in the staff room!! What an eye opener!! So many anti armed forces educators. No respect shown at all by many of the teaching staff So much so I was getting quite angry to the point my boss give me a red card and had me return to the helicopter to watch anything wasn't tampered with. (Even though the battery had been disconnected). (Also got me out of the firing line). If those educators passed on their views to their students I can well understand much of the negativity there is in school kids towards a career in the AF's.

[Guest]

I went back to 'school' following a heart attack in 2001. I was not allowed to drive HGV's untill cleared, so it was suggested I do a jobcentre MS Word course, that led onto a multi-media art and design course at my local college and that in due course led to the 2.1 degree in Graphic Art and Design. The jobcentre people were ok and left me alone as at that time I was computer literate having had a good 'teacher' in building, installing programs and hacking. But then the college and uni staff were a different kettle of fish, not only anti military but also anti truck drivers - for crying out loud, one is there to protect you and the other is there to provide what you need in life....
No wonder I class myself - as our illustrious leader calls everyone who does not agree with him - a 76 year old right-wing thug.....