A what if question

[grumpa]

Let's not forget that the Russians early in the war had to keep a million+ troops in Eastern Russia protecting against a possible attack from Japan. Through very good intelligence they discovered that Japan had no such plans (they had eyes in the southern Pacific) so that freed up a massive amount of men and equipment which Stalin spent 1941 moving to the Eastern front (using trucks supplied by the U.S.). I think if Stalin had had to keep these assets in the east Hitler could've taken much more territory (Moscow for sure). Just a small excursion by the Japanese would've made things very interesting. Good thing the communication between the axis allies was poor.
Ray

Very true, the Germans got quite a nasty surprise when the Siberians showed up

[stona]

All very interesting. One thing we are all missing is that Nazi Germany wasn't as powerful as it was made out to be when the assault on the West started in 1940.

And when the assault on the Soviet Union started. That's why I put a great big MIGHT in my original post. I think it was just about a possibility of the Germans to defeat the Russians, as much due to Russian incompetence and bad organisation as to German force of arms.


By 1943 that chance was long gone and the Germans were under increasing pressure in the west, the USAAF was about to destroy the Luftwaffe in day light and an invasion was clearly going to come the following year. That Russian incompetence had largely been replaced by a ruthlessness and determination combined with much better armaments. Soviet generals out performed their German counterparts and both made the Anglo-Americans look like amateurs.


Cheers


Steve

[dave]

There is some evidence that the troops that remilitarised the Rhineland had strict orders to withdraw if the French resisted. It would be interesting to speculate on the course of history had that not occurred, as that success bolstered hitler for the Anschluss and The Sudetenland.

[Alan 45]

I was thinking about this and I wonder what might of happened if hitler didn't invade Russia ?


How far could he have gone in the west ?


Let's face it the yanks were not going to get involved until they were dragged kicking and screaming into it by the japs

[Guest]

Ok so here is a question if The Japanese left the Americans alone and Germany and japan combined their strength to hit Russia in a two front war, taking my original question into account do you think Russia could have been beaten?


scott

[Alan 45]

Now that's a scrap I'd buy tickets for , let's face it the japs were like most other countries military wise but I suppose with the backing of German might , I don't think it would have been a cake walk and I could see Europe staying out of it due to no direct hostility to it


It could of but it would still of taken one heck of an occupation army


It all depends on what help Russia got from elsewhere in the world , would we , France , the U.S. of been inclined to help seeing as there was no direct aggression to us don't forget chamberlain thought hitler was someone he could work with

[Guest]

This is my trace on the matter. Not so well up with this area so please any one correct anything I have put down here.


First France and Britain would have declared war as Poland would have been invaded as they actually did in history. Assuming the time scale and events to that time are as set by the question.France and Britain declared war well before any offensive operations were conducted on their own lands.


Primarily the Germans could not beat Russia on their own. And so could the Japanese have tipped the balance is the crux of the matter. That is a war on two fronts.


Secondly a bit misty on this one but the Japanese did not have the heavy weapons that Russia had tanks guns etc. Russia were fighting on their own back door Japan was far from home. Tokyo to Moscow about 6000 miles.


But most decisively for a good part of 1939 the Russian Army and the Japanese Army were at each others throats along the Chinese/Russian boundary. This was an undeclared war but a ferocious one. The Japanese began well until the Russians started to learn mostly because Stalin put in charge General Zhukov one of the few not to be slaughtered in the Stalin kill all Generals purge. In those 6 months or so the Russian army eventually after a poor start routed the Japanese.


At the end of this period Russia signed a pack with Germany who then later broke this and signed a pack with Japan. Such is loyalty.


Despite the German advance Russia, although pulling back most of their army to the Polish border, left defending the China/Russian border against any further attacks by the Japanese 19 Divisions 1200 tanks and 1000 aircraft.


My play on the matter. The Japanese had had enough and started on the USA or really more to the point the countries around Japan with resources. To answer the question. I think it would have made the Russian job more difficult but the result would have been the same.


Laurie