Assistance with a dilema please.

[Guest]

After finishing the king tiger, i have been asked if i wish to do a comission for a fellow and be paid for my services, he is asking about building the millenium falcon from starwars now the kit cost him £200.... so my question is this other than the materials charge what would be a fair price you would charge him for your time and skill to build and finish this kit. I have no idea so some assistance would be much appreciated.

scott:babygirl:

[Guest]

The only advice I can offer is get an idea of the time this will take you to build and charge a 'per hour' rate that would be suitable to you.

If you see this purely as a job of work you may feel somewhere between £10 - £20 an hour is acceptable, (a skilled procedure yielding a good result is not a cheap hourly rate)

If however you think you'll get great pleasure from doing this you may feel it appropriate to charge a lower hourly rate or even an overall figure, think very hard about the time it'll take you and if the customer has expectations on when it will be completed and if you can achieve the build in this timescale.

Hope this helps

Ensure also that you get paid, (at the least for all materials) prior to starting with a Caveat that if you aren't paid according to directions upon completion you'll retain the model to sell and recoup lost earning costs

[Guest]

Awkward one to answer as it depends a lot on the relationship between you and the customer. If it is simply that. a customer then you need to charged based on a realistic hourly rate for your skill based on what you estimate the time it will take to finish.

You also need to consider a get out clause in case the customer tries to say at the completion that it isn't as good as they thought it would be in the hope of you dropping the price.

On the other side of the coin, you have to consider what will happen if (highly unlike) that it goes belly up, spill liquid cement all over it for example. Would this leave you with a £200 layout to replace it?

I would consider £10 per hour or set a fixed amount such as the price of the kit. This would not work out for smaller cheaper kits. No way would I do a Hobyboss T34 commission for £9 lol

[Guest]

LOL, will you build my MkI airfix 72nd spit for £5.99 Graham, i'll throw in a couple of quid for shipping, :clap_1:

Very good and valid point about the replacement for the kit if (hopefully it wouldn't), something gets damaged during the build.

[spanner570]

Pricing anything like this is very hard and I wouldn't even know where to start.

One thing I do know is that where money and commissions are involved a proper legally binding agreement is an absolute must.... Even between friends.

Having spent all my working life for people 'On a price', I know from experience how customer's friendly attitude can alter dramatically when pay day comes along!!

The pitfalls are many, so please Scott don't do this with a hand shake and word of mouth. Get it written down and witnessed......Think this is a bit over the top? Most folks are fair and honest but there is the other kind and I've met them!

I hope this doesn't come over as putting a damper on the idea, I think it's great and shows how good your modelling skills are, just be careful mate!

Cheers,

Ron

[Guest]

LOL, will you build my MkI airfix 72nd spit for £5.99 Graham, i'll throw in a couple of quid for shipping

Skint as I am Mike, that is nearly an offer I could not refuse lol

However, I have decided not to build any more aircraft, I am sticking to vehicles now.

Take heed of what Ron says about contractual agreements Scott, it does not happen very often but when things go belly up, life can get complicated. However, I would stress that the doom and gloom bit is not aimed at putting you off just something to be aware of. I remember when I first got serious about photography. I just loved it and really enjoyed it when I got asked to do some pro work for my employer, trouble is it became a second job and not a hobby so I gave it up. It was fifteen years before I picked up a camera again.

You are a very talented modeller and if you can finance your hobby by doing stuff like this then go for it, if you can make a living at it and need a photographer, my number is ............

[Guest]

Graham nice to hear from you mate always a pleasure, so some very wise words there and no mistake i think you are right about the written contract thing that is a good idea, if you folks can give me some idea on what to put in it then i can draft it up on the computer, gents thank you for the wise imput any further help in drafting a contract would be appreciated.

scott

[Guest]

I would approach it in the same as I approach my photography commisions (not professional as in I haven't got a "business" but I have worked for bands and individuals) basically how much "hassle" or "time use" would it cost you - this translates into your hourly rate. Then your expenses, materials, paint/aftermarket stuff etc is the "expenses" rate and if this equates to a figure you'd be happy with and the punter doesn't pass out at, you're good.

HTH

Stuart

[Ian M]

I would say the £10 per hour sounds fair for your time. If you dont want him getting all "Howmuchdidyousaythatcost" when you need materials and or extras, give him a list and let him buy it. If he says that you can buy it, get the money up front. ALL the time you are "working" on the project, be it building, or running out to buy things for the build you are on the clock. Doing and hourly rate, he will want an estimate of how long it will take. If you knock it out as quick as you did that King Tiger, you might want to consider a fast prise.

As Others have said, get it in writing, get cash up front for your expenses and payment for the first 10 hours.

(very important when being paid by the hour. Keep a build log and TAKE YOUR TIME! LOL

What did the guy think of His Tiger you built by the way? I imagine he was well pleased.

Ian M

[spanner570]

Glad to see you have taken my advise and get it all in writing Scott.

I was worried when I posted my reply that you would see it as all being a bit negative, far from it, I wish you well with the project.

I am not qualified to give you advise as to how to progress and might just give you duff info. When I was working and involved with contracts, I had someone from the legal profession do it for me, I just signed the papers where he put the crosses! lol

My advise would be to contact your solicitor and have a chat. Unfortunately, this might start to cost money but you would add this in your costing anyway. On the other hand there could well be a solicitor in the ranks of Scale Models who could offer advise!

Don't short change yourself whatever way you go at it.....

Ron

[Guest]

Hopefully you will get to build this ship, would love to see your take on this iconic vessel. When i used to be self employed and priced jobs i always split the overall cost of the job, i worked out the total cost of labour and materials then split the payments 50%,35% and 15%. I would take the first say when you have completed the assembly and scratch bits, the second once the paint has gone on and the customer is happy and then the final 15% once the project is completed and all parties are happy. Looking at the King Tiger you built he will be a happy man with the result.

Cheers

Darren

[Guest]

You don't have to really bother with solicitors etc, you can probably get a contract for Commisioned Work by looking on the internet....and adjust it to suit.

It will be a legal document when signed by yourself, the purchaser and a witness (or two).

I have an old Musical contract i used for Commisioned Work and Composing i could email to you if you wished, you'd just have to replace terms like "Composer" with "Model Builder", maybe just tweak some time schedules and delete the musical performing rights jargon and you'd be about on the right track.

[Guest]

Having run an architectural practice & since retirement (?) a videography & Wedding Fayre business I have had a vast experience in ways clients have found not to pay.

One an open end commitment such as an hourly rate is not an option.

A package deal is the only way as both you & the Client know the end deal & all in writing in DETAIL. Also meet the person you are going to deal with as you find out the character of the person. Do not go on trust unless you have worked & know the person you are dealing with.

Essential is to establish the level of the finish to be provided. That is to let the client see the level of your expertise in a finished product. Not forgetting if you provide your very best model then that is the standard you set but can you achieve your best every time. For video I have a demo DVD which consists of my solid work with only a splash or two of my best. I know my best has to be based on some luck in all things going perfectly plus that occasional break in filming some thing out of the ordinary.

This sets a level which can then be a measuring stick which will cut most arguments about quality.

Payment is up to the person but my advice is to get the majority of the "dosh" before parting with the model I do demand,with wedding films, payment 3 weeks before. If you do have problems in getting payment never grunt & groan go for the juggler & subtly ask if they wish it to be agreed in court.

Models can be re used so in the detail limit the model for one action or film only. Also do you want the model returned.

Heavy stuff above but saves a lot of tears as I found early in my business life. There are a lot of devious clever souls out there. Show weakness & they will exploit it.

Laurie

[Guest]

You don't have to really bother with solicitors etc, you can probably get a contract for Commisioned Work by looking on the internet....and adjust it to suit.It will be a legal document when signed by yourself, the purchaser and a witness (or two).

I have an old Musical contract i used for Commisioned Work and Composing i could email to you if you wished, you'd just have to replace terms like "Composer" with "Model Builder", maybe just tweak some time schedules and delete the musical performing rights jargon and you'd be about on the right track.

Hi colin i would like that i will send you a pm with my e-mail, cheers mate.

scott

[stona]

I've stayed out of this as I don't really feel qualified to give advice but since Laurie has mentioned it I have to say I was thinking that a fixed price would be the only sensible option. I too am self employed and always price my work ( essentially my "skills" and experience) as a total per job.This way noone gets a nasty surprise. This does mean you are going to have to estimate your cost in time and materials to give a quote.

Sadly,though rarely, I've also struggled for payment though in my case this is usually with the "larger" organisations I contract to. I've only once had to go as far as a court in thirty years and that was with a production company related to a major television network which I obviously can't name here.

If both you and your client have agreed and signed up to a build at a certain price then I think you have to be positive and expect that you'll both get what you want and enjoy a pleasurable experience.

As to what you charge,I really don't know. SWMBO would find it hard to believe but you are doing a skilled job and employing something that is always difficult to put a price on,your experience. I would go for a price that makes the build worth my while rather than calculating an hourly/daily rate,quite different to how I run my business!

Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best of luck. I know it will be good.

Cheers

Steve