Cheating : Sport

[Guest]

I do get very disturbed at the cheating that is going on in sport. Both the athletes cricketers and the managers and controllers of sport. Is what you watch true sport.


How can any one in sport go home and look at a medal on their wall or think of the goal or runs they have made knowing they have obtained those by cheating. That some one else was better than them and came second.


There just seems to be so many in the background with their hand in the purse of so many things.


I played a lot of cricket. If I knew I was out I left the field. Scoring more runs after knowing I was out was just not on. I have heard cricketers say stay score your runs as next time you are given out it may not be so what sort of attitude is that. If you are out your are out. The cricketer, wicket keeper batsmen Australian, Adam Gilchrist walked and was criticized by his team mates. Just amazing he was being honest.


Laurie

[eddiesolo]

To win at all costs seems to override some people's sense of the term 'sportsmanship'. Very sad.

[Guest]

Haven't we had this discussion before?


http://scale-models.co.uk/threads/sporting-ethics.32258/

[stona]

Cheating is a grey area. Richie McCaw, the best rugby player I've ever seen, gets yelled at by the referee to step back from a ruck as he's offside. He immediately complies (as he invariably did). A few minutes later he quietly asks the referee if he was actually in an offside position, 'Sir'. As a senior player he has not only subtly let his interpretation of the rules be known but has also placed a seed of doubt in the referees mind.....Cheating?....Gamesmanship? You tell me.


Cheers


Steve

[Guest]

Cheating is a grey area. Richie McCaw, the best rugby player I've ever seen, gets yelled at by the referee to step back from a ruck as he's offside. He immediately complies (as he invariably did). A few minutes later he quietly asks the referee if he was actually in an offside position, 'Sir'. As a senior player he has not only subtly let his interpretation of the rules be known but has also placed a seed of doubt in the referees mind.....Cheating?....Gamesmanship? You tell me.
Cheers


Steve

I think we know cheating Steve. Playing cricket I did. Umpires. I have been given out and was not. We had members of the opposing team acting as an umpire we trusted them. Bu that is the nature of sport it relies on humans doing their best in very difficult circumstances making good decisions scorned by the spectators then proved right by technology. Poor decisions made in 10ths of a second.


But I do not think that we are talking of this or the above. we are talking of, or I am, the taking of drugs and the cheats down the line who take money to over look the results. Cricketers and footballers rigging the passage of play for rogue betting being payed for, letting down their colleagues and their country. Some getting convicted and then allowed to resume playing including for their own country again.


Pride seems to have gone in a percentage. very sad.


Laurie

[Guest]

Obviously, the only way to fix this is to have robots and computers play sports.


Mind you then someone will hack them and make them cheat and we are back to square one.


Unless Laurie uses his Commodore 64 and dial up, that way sport will be safe!! (Sorry laurie, had to get that i. There!)

[Guest]

Not at all Dave people just have to have pride in them selves to play the game


as otherwise it is not sport. Sport is to pit yourself against others with out fear


or favour and cheating.


To play in sport according to the rules. It is quite simple "you do not cheat".


To again reiterate do you want a medal hanging on the wall knowing you


did not win it as you cheated.


Alan Gilkrist an Australian and I as an Englishman applaud him.


He walked when he considered himself out what ever the umpire decided.


Gilchrist said in his autobiography that he had "zero support in the team" for his stance and that he felt that the topic made the dressing room uncomfortable.[190] He added that he "felt isolated" and "silently accused of betraying the team. Implictly I was made to feel selfish, as if I was walking for the sake of my own clean image, thereby making everyone else look dishonest."[


Betraying his team !!!!, by God, he was a sportsman of the highest order. A man with pride and he did this knowing he was not supported by his team. As a cricketer he was the best player have probably ever had. During my early life there was an expression "it's not cricket".


Laurie

[Guest]

I dont disagree with you Laurie, unfortunately, its rife in anything HUMAN nowadays, folk cheat at games, sports, gambling, their jobs.


I guess what i tried to imply was, dont stress about it. 90% of the football players in this world are the biggest cheats ever, crying like babies when theyre tackled, that game has gone to the dogs.


But they earn my yearly salary every day, and couldn't give a damn.


Years ago, sportsmen and women were professionals, representing their county or country or school.


They played to their best, and were proud just to get the chance.


Nowadays, most (not all, thank god!) sportspeople are there to earn big bucks, get the glory, the fame, fortune, and be damned if they have to cheat to do it.


Case in point about sportsmanship, which i have witnessed first hand in my line of work.


Lewis Hamilton. Englands leading F1 driver. When he wins, his attitude is about him, the team. When he looses his attitude sucks, and is in a foul mood.


Jensen Button. Fighting his way onto the grid every time. When things go right and he gets results, he smiles, thanks everyone, and is a happy chappie!


When the chips are down, he gets DNF no points, he smiles, thanks everyone, says sorry he tried his best, is a happy chappie.


The point? There are more sportspeople with Lewis' attitude than Jensen's!

[Guest]

Cheating or some form of deceit happens in all aspects of life, always has done - always will do.


For those who feel this is a modern phenomenon, look to the past. What about the infamous ' Bodyline ' series? That wasn't just cheating, it was a direct attempt to physically harm the other players & that was back in the 1920's!


Sportspeople want to win & sometimes they'll do anything to achieve that.


Why do we expect them to be morally decent? We expect politicians to be morally corrupt, but they're just people too, wanting to win.

[Guest]

Cheating or some form of deceit happens in all aspects of life, always has done - always will do.
For those who feel this is a modern phenomenon, look to the past. What about the infamous ' Bodyline ' series? That wasn't just cheating, it was a direct attempt to physically harm the other players & that was back in the 1920's!


Sportspeople want to win & sometimes they'll do anything to achieve that.


Why do we expect them to be morally decent? We expect politicians to be morally corrupt, but they're just people too, wanting to win.

Cheating or some form of deceit happens in all aspects of life, always has done - always will do. Correct. That is unacceptable.


What about the infamous ' Bodyline ' series? That wasn't just cheating, it was a direct attempt to physically harm. The body line series, as so called was


1932 to 1933. Please tell me where your evidence comes from to say that it was an attempt to physically harm players ? Present day cricketers


bowl faster now and in the same manner as in 1932/1933. Fred Truman, England, Keith Miller, Australian did it in the 50's . Not cheating what is your point ?


Sports people want to win. Good point. Often had that feeling playing cricket.


& sometimes they'll do anything to achieve that. Good point I smashed the ball to the boundary at every opportunity and felt good about it.


Providing it is within the rules not a problem. Otherwise we are back to your first line.Cheating or some form of deceit happens in all aspects of life.


Why do we expect them to be morally decent? We expect politicians to be morally corrupt, but they're just people too, wanting to win. That is a very


strange and pessimistic statement which I prefer not to be part off.





Laurie

[Guest]

Cheating or some form of deceit happens in all aspects of life, always has done - always will do. Correct. That is unacceptable.
What about the infamous ' Bodyline ' series? That wasn't just cheating, it was a direct attempt to physically harm. The body line series, as so called was


1932 to 1933. Please tell me where your evidence comes from to say that it was an attempt to physically harm players ? Present day cricketers


bowl faster now and in the same manner as in 1932/1933. Fred Truman, England, Keith Miller, Australian did it in the 50's . Not cheating what is your point ?


Sports people want to win. Good point. Often had that feeling playing cricket.


& sometimes they'll do anything to achieve that. Good point I smashed the ball to the boundary at every opportunity and felt good about it.


Providing it is within the rules not a problem. Otherwise we are back to your first line.Cheating or some form of deceit happens in all aspects of life.


Why do we expect them to be morally decent? We expect politicians to be morally corrupt, but they're just people too, wanting to win. That is a very


strange and pessimistic statement which I prefer not to be part off.





Laurie

My point Laurie is that Jardines' tactics were to have his fast bowlers aim at the Australian batsman, not the stumps. Good sportsmanship?


So why do you expect sportspeople to play fair? Just because you did?


That's a very naive attitude.

[john i am]

Laurie sadly not all people are cut from the same cloth.


I'm afraid the minority of cheats from your generation are now the majority in my generation. If you can't beat em join em mentality. You only have to watch MOTD on BBC 1 on a Saturday to see all the rolling around.


How many times have things been won and lost because of cheats and underhand tactics.


I'm still steaming from 1986 and the "hand of god" goal.


But hey I don't hold a grudge..................

[Guest]

I dont disagree with you Laurie, unfortunately, its rife in anything HUMAN nowadays, folk cheat at games, sports, gambling, their jobs.

So true, you can add politics to that too...

[stona]

Let's get a few facts straight!


Bodyline was not cheating. It was within the rules and bowling that line still is, within certain limitations which did not come in as a result of that series but as a result of West Indies bowling in the 1970/80s.


Bodyline was not an effort to hurt the batsmen, it was an effort to force them to protect themselves (which it is incumbent upon them to do) by deflecting the ball into a packed leg side field. After the series the rule change did not disallow bowling on or outside the line of leg stump, it disallowed placing several fielders in catching positions, behind square, on the leg side. That made the method pointless.


The English developed bodyline theory in an effort to negate one Australian batsman who had a perceived weakness to short pitched bowling on this line.


Cheers


Steve

[Guest]

Let's get a few facts straight!
Bodyline was not cheating. It was within the rules and bowling that line still is, within certain limitations which did not come in as a result of that series but as a result of West Indies bowling in the 1970/80s.


Bodyline was not an effort to hurt the batsmen, it was an effort to force them to protect themselves (which it is incumbent upon them to do) by deflecting the ball into a packed leg side field. After the series the rule change did not disallow bowling on or outside the line of leg stump, it disallowed placing several fielders in catching positions, behind square, on the leg side. That made the method pointless.


The English developed bodyline theory in an effort to negate one Australian batsman who had a perceived weakness to short pitched bowling on this line.


Cheers


Steve

I was going to mention that Steve.. But put more eloquently than I did. The batsman was Bradman. He still scored a lot of runs.


Larwood (the wicked bowler) took his wicket 4 times in the 5 test match series.


Patrick apologies I was cruelly sarcastic. I was annoyed at something else and near my bed time tired.


The line between sportsmanship and not is very hazy at times. However many rules are made that will always be there.


However that is not for me a great problem. It is the blatant and organised cheating. We seen two cricketers sent to gaol.


World Football in complete disarray (could be gaol here as well. Problems with a German Manager. Athletics. Cycling.


All these are based on cheating and being caught with the hand in the till.


Laurie