Interesting interview

[Guest]

Found this posted on the IPMS Facebook page.  Don't usually go in for interviews but I do think this is a breath of fresh air and has set me thinking.  It's not long and it isn't heavy but it is thought provoking.  Would love to discuss with anyone else finds it interesting.

[papa 695]

I think he's right with the 3D printing theory it's already taking off 

[Guest]

I think I'll politely disagree with Ian regarding 3D printing. My personal feeling is that full kits produced in this way are a long way off. I can see it eventually replacing resin for smaller aftermarket parts though.


To my mind, the investment that major kit manufacturers have made in recent years in processes such as slide moulding mean they'll not be going down the 3D route anytime soon.


I found the interviewees comments about sticking to the ''building rules' were very interesting. With the advent of the internet there's a heck of a lot of information around & therefore many people end up following a kind of 'approved' manner of building & finishing a kit - myself included!


Because many of us are eventually going to display a completed model to our peers on forums like this, I wonder if we're getting a little bit afraid of taking risks, especially if it means potentially ruining a kit that's taken a long time to build (not to mention the purchase price!).

[Guest]

I think he's right with the 3D printing theory it's already taking off 

Possibly but I hate to think where that will lead.  No need for retailers of kits?  I don't know how this pans out for retailers as a fraction of their business.  At the moment it looks to me that the finishing products, tools and accessories are the big thing.


Couple of things that interested me is that David Parker, a really fine modeller, virtually dismisses the use of primer and the use of varnish between weathering and painting.  Something I and many others consider essential.


His comments about the subject matter of kits, especially vehicles, being virtually covered.  This implies that the future of armour modelling may be limited to the same kits from different manufacturers being re vamped (made more accurate?) rather than new subjects.  This would bode no good for the older modellers who have built just about every armour model that would be of interest.  Does this mean that civilian vehicles, ships, construction subjects will increase?  Not a bad thing in itself but could long time military modellers really be seeing the end of their genre?


I know the likes of Meng and Takom have brought out some great new kits but how many are new subjects?


Certainly got me thinking, not panicking, just thinking.  With the cost of these 'new' kits rapidly rising, will we soon see the first £100 tank? I am considering going retro and buying just the older kits.  Hobbycraft have a 1970s kit of the German Pack40  for £5.99.  At one time, dimensionally, this was considered the most accurate Pack40 around.  This has probably only recently been improved on but I bet it costs nearer to £35.99. 


Oddly, I have the Tamiya kit in my stash and, yes, I paid another £8 for a turned aluminium barrel with brass muzzle brake.  OK, it does not have the two piece photo etch gun shield that the modern kits have for the separated sheet steel guard but it is recessed to look the part and it really does look the part.


Anyway, I am off topic of the interview video but as I said before, it really has got me thinking.

[Guest]

I think I'll politely disagree with Ian regarding 3D printing. My personal feeling is that full kits produced in this way are a long way off. I can see it eventually replacing resin for smaller aftermarket parts though.


To my mind, the investment that major kit manufacturers have made in recent years in processes such as slide moulding mean they'll not be going down the 3D route anytime soon.


I found the interviewees comments about sticking to the ''building rules' were very interesting. With the advent of the internet there's a heck of a lot of information around & therefore many people end up following a kind of 'approved' manner of building & finishing a kit - myself included!


Because many of us are eventually going to display a completed model to our peers on forums like this, I wonder if we're getting a little bit afraid of taking risks, especially if it means potentially ruining a kit that's taken a long time to build (not to mention the purchase price!).

I agree.  I can see 3D definitely taking over the resin aftermarket quite quickly.  Maybe it is time to evaluate why we actually build models.  The Internet has really changed things for modeller, mainly for the better, but do some of us actually build to appease peer expectations?


I know that I have fallen into this trap.  On one forum I used to be on, I found myself jumping from one model to another just trying to keep up with the 'big boys'.  I still jump from one kit to another all the time but that is because I am fickle and easily distracted 

[papa 695]

I'm not saying it will take over the market for kit building but like he says if they can send/ sell the plans if you have a printer which in time some modellers will have them will print there own. 


There will always be a need for plastic kits for us poor people.


but I do agree that more than likely they will be mostly used for after market instead of resin

[tanktrack]

I was at the show at the weekend in Dublin and saw the 3d tank that Dave had with him and some of the detail on the thing like louvres/vents was fantastic , it certainly makes for an interesting future . 

[Gern]

Maybe the manufacturers are running out of mainstream military equipment to model. If so, I can only see that as a good thing as it will force them to look for alternative subject matter.


I mean, just how many Tigers do you want? I'd guess that every major variant that was ever made is now available, in a range of scales and at a range of prices (read level of detail for that if you want) to suit everyone. I'm all for looking at some of the rarer types of stuff that you see now and then. How many of us have been complaining for years about the chronic lack of construction vehicles? I wonder just how many people could describe a JCB just from it's initials? Yet you can count on the fingers of one hand how many models have been made. How many civilian vehicles and how much street furniture is available in 1/35 to go with our armour and figures and buildings? How many figures and how much ground equipment is available to display with our 1/32 aircraft - so lovingly built with wheels down and open cockpits so we can pose them on the ground? There's lots of opportunities for manufacturers to branch out into other areas.


As for 3D printing, I'm a modeller. Certainly not a good one, but a modeller all the same. What I'm most definitely not is a computer programmer. If people want to just buy a printer and shop for CDs to upload and print, that's fine and I'm sure there will be a lot of them. But that's not what I understand by modelling, and I sincerely hope that it doesn't replace what we do. There will always be a need for manual skills and for people with the ability to create original pieces with their hands - even if they are done from a set of preformed parts rather than carved from a block of wood or stone. 


Mind you, I'll bet our grandfathers said the same sort of thing when these new-fangled injection-moulded kits started to replace balsa and tissue!


I'm not saying there's no need for new manufacturing techniques, far from it. There's a huge range of things that 3D printing could bring to our hobby - but how long will it be before you can buy a programme and printing machine which will build, colour and weather any subject you can create CAD drawings for? And how long will it be before competition tables at shows are full of models which owe nothing to the modeller's skills except the ability to programme a computer?


Where's the fun in that?

[Ian M]

Hmm the 3D printed question...


What is the difference between another skilled moddeler making a high detail bit of work and reproducing it in resin so another not as gifted moddeler can buy it, paint it and stick it in or on their injection moulded kit. Contra a person that can do the design work on a computer and either print is out and sell it or sell the files so you could print it.


In my eyes it is much the same thing. I would bet that the 3D printed one will be a lot more in scale if the draughtsman knows their job.


So we are running out of military subjects...I would also say that we are running out of people that are as interested in WWII and the like. Living history is even less enthralling than it has been.


Modern cars are slowly beginning to  look more and more the same as fuel economy, safety and drag coefficients are put in the computer and the results come out the other end.. A big hole I can see as a product line is, wait for it.... Agricultural equipment. Have you seen some of the beasts that put food on the table every day.


Tractors alone come in all shapes, sizes and colour with a huge amount of options.....Your old Ford 2000 has nowt to compare to a huge John Deer or Massey Ferguson.


Google after them and see what there is.... Not a lot was there.
 

[Guest]

Maybe the manufacturers are running out of mainstream military equipment to model. If so, I can only see that as a good thing as it will force them to look for alternative subject matter.


I mean, just how many Tigers do you want? I'd guess that every major variant that was ever made is now available, in a range of scales and at a range of prices (read level of detail for that if you want) to suit everyone. I'm all for looking at some of the rarer types of stuff that you see now and then. How many of us have been complaining for years about the chronic lack of construction vehicles? I wonder just how many people could describe a JCB just from it's initials? Yet you can count on the fingers of one hand how many models have been made. How many civilian vehicles and how much street furniture is available in 1/35 to go with our armour and figures and buildings? How many figures and how much ground equipment is available to display with our 1/32 aircraft - so lovingly built with wheels down and open cockpits so we can pose them on the ground? There's lots of opportunities for manufacturers to branch out into other areas.


As for 3D printing, I'm a modeller. Certainly not a good one, but a modeller all the same. What I'm most definitely not is a computer programmer. If people want to just buy a printer and shop for CDs to upload and print, that's fine and I'm sure there will be a lot of them. But that's not what I understand by modelling, and I sincerely hope that it doesn't replace what we do. There will always be a need for manual skills and for people with the ability to create original pieces with their hands - even if they are done from a set of preformed parts rather than carved from a block of wood or stone. 


Mind you, I'll bet our grandfathers said the same sort of thing when these new-fangled injection-moulded kits started to replace balsa and tissue!


I'm not saying there's no need for new manufacturing techniques, far from it. There's a huge range of things that 3D printing could bring to our hobby - but how long will it be before you can buy a programme and printing machine which will build, colour and weather any subject you can create CAD drawings for? And how long will it be before competition tables at shows are full of models which owe nothing to the modeller's skills except the ability to programme a computer?


Where's the fun in that?

The 3D printing will only be creating bits that still need to be assembled Dave, still be a kit.  The only really exciting thing I see in 3D printing is scale.  One set of drawings is all that is needed.  You can then select to print the parts for that model in any scale you want.


we do need more civilian stuff though but I doubt it would become mass market.  Even cars have never had the same impact as military.  I would say the biggest thing none military is trucks etc but why no kit of the amazing machines that empty our wheels bins every week or so, and why no wheels bins?

[rickoshea52]

It's interesting to read the comments about the amount of subject matter for models kits reducing with many manufacturers releasing kits that "plug the gaps". The same situation has occurred in the model railway world with the more popular and numerous locos and rolling stock being released by Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol etc to a point of "saturation" that has driven a move to producing those less numerous examples - great news for the modeller. 


Dave Parker said some interesting stuff about 3D printing, licensing a download for personal use is already available for card building kits from companies like Scalescenes. With 3D printing imagine you buy a download for a kit and lose or break a part during assembly - just print a replacement part! Or perhaps you buy a Shackleton MR2 and when done you want to build an AEW3, just buy and download an additional sprue to go with the drawings you already have. Think of the space you will save, your stash will no longer clutter the loft/garage/shed, perfect for that expensive 3D printing machine to occupy. Then there is the ease with which you can smuggle it past the wife, an electronic download instead of hiding that bulky box under your coat and upstairs.


3D printing will not replace plastic modelling as we know it but I am convinced that it will keep the hobby interesting and diverse enough for it to continue, thrive even. As an example, many model railway enthusiasts grumbled and chuntered about DCC when it first appeared claiming that it wouldn't bring anything to the hobby and increase costs - all bogus. To my mind DCC made it easier to wire and control a railway and therefore more attractive to the newcomer. But you don't have to pay to have the new stuff, the "old fashioned" and cheaper techniques and methods still have their place and are still as valid. 


I think the biggest challenge that will face modellers in the coming years is the rising costs. Prices rise, they almost always do, but it is the rate that they rise that worries me. Labour costs in China for example have driven the price of railway models to a point where I can no longer justify the expenditure. If the cost of labour in the developing countries where our plastic model kits are produced rises like in China then we have an interesting future ahead of us.

[Gwyn]

It's interesting to read the comments about the amount of subject matter for models kits reducing with many manufacturers releasing kits that "plug the gaps". The same situation has occurred in the model railway world with the more popular and numerous locos and rolling stock being released by Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol etc to a point of "saturation" that has driven a move to producing those less numerous examples - great news for the modeller. 


Dave Parker said some interesting stuff about 3D printing, licensing a download for personal use is already available for card building kits from companies like Scalescenes. With 3D printing imagine you buy a download for a kit and lose or break a part during assembly - just print a replacement part! Or perhaps you buy a Shackleton MR2 and when done you want to build an AEW3, just buy and download an additional sprue to go with the drawings you already have. Think of the space you will save, your stash will no longer clutter the loft/garage/shed, perfect for that expensive 3D printing machine to occupy. Then there is the ease with which you can smuggle it past the wife, an electronic download instead of hiding that bulky box under your coat and upstairs.


3D printing will not replace plastic modelling as we know it but I am convinced that it will keep the hobby interesting and diverse enough for it to continue, thrive even. As an example, many model railway enthusiasts grumbled and chuntered about DCC when it first appeared claiming that it wouldn't bring anything to the hobby and increase costs - all bogus. To my mind DCC made it easier to wire and control a railway and therefore more attractive to the newcomer. But you don't have to pay to have the new stuff, the "old fashioned" and cheaper techniques and methods still have their place and are still as valid. 


I think the biggest challenge that will face modellers in the coming years is the rising costs. Prices rise, they almost always do, but it is the rate that they rise that worries me. Labour costs in China for example have driven the price of railway models to a point where I can no longer justify the expenditure. If the cost of labour in the developing countries where our plastic model kits are produced rises like in China then we have an interesting future ahead of us.

Good excuse to build up the stash

[stona]

As far as 3D printing goes there are already some fantastically detailed figures appearing on the market, at the moment from 'one man band' type producers. Correction sets and other improvement or detail sets will surely follow, if they haven't already.


I'm not sure about buying a license for the software which would enable you to print a kit at home. You might as well print the completed model! I agree that the more recent molding technologies still have a few years to run.


I don't mind the increasing cost of kits as much as some. Firstly I don't buy many kits. I buy to build unlike some who seem to be kit collectors and occasional builders, which is fine if that's what lifts their kilts. Secondly, even at say a ton a kit, this is still a cheap hobby compared to many others. The biggest investment most of us make is in tools, brushes, paints etc and this is not made in one go but over many years.


I don't buy a lot of fancy weathering products and the like as I can use techniques I learned literally decades ago (where's that lighter fluid ) long before such things appeared on the market, to achieve similar results much more cheaply. I do agree that this seems to be a burgeoning market.


Cheers


Steve

[Guest]

I don't know if anyone else has seen this month's AFV Modeller magazine? Horribly expensive (£6) but really well produced etc. Dave Parker has made an extremely imaginative Diorama using Meng's Mk 5 Male Tank. He wanted some way of showing off the amazing interior which is mostly tricky to see once finished. So, he did a factory dio, with the incomplete tank and some workers on the production line. Its a bit squeaky clean for my tastes (I'm sure the factories were very grimy and well worn), but an extraordinary piece of work, and the idea is so good! It's worth popping into W H Smiths and thumbing through, just to see it!

[Guest]

I have and use a 3D printer a lot, but it was a steep learning curve sorting out where to use it and where absolutely not to use it. It's just another tool in the box. The surface finish is the first issue after months of trials I have the best I can get with my printer and it's no good for external large surfaces. The second issue is the material PLA is affected by heat I printed an ammo box for my tank left it on the window ledge sun came out warp out of all proportions. I have tried printing with HIPS and that is close to impossible and needs a chemical procedure to improve the finish. But used for complicated castings engine blocks axle boxes etc can produce a good item. The printer was a kit and the software I use is free on the interweb. I have attached a pic (hopefully my fist post) of a 1/19 ish scale axle box for a Renault FT-17 I am just starting will start a thread after my hols.


Bob