Bad Taste? Morality?

[Dave Ward]

Thanks all for the replies, obviously it's a topic which has been thought about by a lot of people. I guess it comes down to individual perceptions of what is acceptable.
After consideration, I've dropped the idea of an action diorama.............What may be on the cards is a depiction of ' Operation Deadlight ' where surrendered U-boats were scuttled at sea ( Nov 1945 )
A Hunt Class Destroyer ORP Krakowiak towing U-2337 out to be scuttled

Dave

[The Smythe Meister]

Thanks all for the replies, obviously it's a topic which has been thought about by a lot of people. I guess it comes down to individual perceptions of what is acceptable.
After consideration, I've dropped the idea of an action diorama.............What may be on the cards is a depiction of ' Operation Deadlight ' where surrendered U-boats were scuttled at sea ( Nov 1945 )
A Hunt Class Destroyer ORP Krakowiak towing U-2337 out to be scuttled
[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1186750[/ATTACH]
Dave

That picture, by itself,is pretty poignant Dave,(The Gloucestershire Dave !! )

[Geoffers]

HI Geoff they wernt allowed to stop an pick up survivors as they might get a torp them selves from another u boat but i think its a good idea an that way Dave can make his dio
chrisb

Cheers Chris, I wasn't sure if it actually happened for the good reasons you give.

A bit of artistic licence wouldn’t go amis though :thinking:

Geoff.

[Guest]

Dave I think it was the late Bill Hearne, or Roy Dilly that depicted a diorama of the Charge of the Light Brigade. And here you saw men dying, and horses dying. The diorama was well recieved at the time. Airfix magazine also ran articles based on the same theme when the new 'Greys' charging officer arrived.
I cannot see any objection when a modeller is trying to depict history and unfortunately death is part of history and the way you die. I for one do not object to depictions of death or dying if it is carried out in a form of 'art'. Christ on the cross, Damien Hurst and his half cow, or shark at the Tate Modern drew comments but once the 15 minutes of fame had died down life went back to normal.
So build the diorama and then let the comments tell you if you did the right thing or not - remember it is your work and your work alone.
Mike.

[PaulTRose]

Lets not get Our hobby dragged into the cancel culture.

which is what happened at Airfix over the years......if you remember their artwork from the 60's it was all aircraft in flames, getting shot down, dropping bombs.......the figure sets were all 'in action'......as i remember Roy Cross wasnt happy when they started to airbrush out things like bombs and flames from his art work......then they went to simply having a picture of the built model on the box....at least they have sort of got back to decent artwork these days

[Guest]

War is death. Lets not get Our hobby dragged into the cancel culture.

We have had and will hopefully continue to have some incredible diorama on here. Some of which have truly shown how war is.
Not every one wants to be so graphic in their depictions which is fair enough.

Oh! Please No! not the cancel culture, I am now in the process of working out, do I put the nylons on before the suspender belt, how do you fasten the bra behind your back and do I squat, stand or just cock a leg and hope I hit the pot......

[PaulTRose]

knew i had seen it somewhere

[Guest]

knew i had seen it somewhere

Oh those were the days, death and destruction at every turn and even in the comics and war books, and there was me just an innocent 11 years old..... My what would the wokes say today after they recovered from their coronairies.....

[langy71]

Dave,

After all is said, it's your build and you portray it as you want to,

We all build war machines whist subconsciously hiding the plain and pure fact that during any kind of war people will die....these machines were built to ensure that...

My current 'build' is of an israeli m6B with a 'child/ youth' throwing a rock at it, (think of the classic David Versus Goliath images), after i'd started building I then discovered that the boy I was basing the figure on was actually shot and killed doing the same thing my dio depicts a few days after the image was photographed,
this hasn't stopped me completing the dio... I carried on building as a testament and celebration to the spirit of the boy and his conviction to doing all he could to 'scare' away the aggressors..

So you carry on as you want to ... History doesn't always have a happy ending and these things must be allowed to told as well..
besides ... if we never learn the mistakes from our history we are fated to repeat them ..

[rtfoe]

I have a funny feeling that Robert Capa's film was deliberately destroyed to keep it from the publics eye as to the horrors on Omaha. It could have been worse than Spielberg's piece.
Haven't done a dio depicting death so far but have been wanting to do a scene of a Marine checking his buddy lying face down on Iwo but has to move on. Not easy, that's why am still contemplating.

Cheers,
Richard.

[AlanG]

Personally, it's all a big bunch of 'Meh'. It's up to the person creating the diorama/artwork on how they feel about the brutal realities of warfare. I don't hear this sort of debate over past masterpieces by popular artists. Although the cancel culture i am sure will get this in their sights one day.

If you don't want to depict it, then don't. If you do, do. It is your build at the end of the day and if it is a historic event then you cannot change history (no matter how much Hollywood try to).

[Andy the Sheep]

I think Jim's (aka Grumpa) works, which I personally admire, could represent a benchmark about this issue. Here's an example: LINK.
I think it's just a question of personal background, sensitivity and tastes; after all, our models are a form of art, a way to express not only our technical skills but also to convey to an audience our perception of the subject. We cannot try to please everyone; I build my models and dioramas my way: if they meet some consensus, I'll be more than glad, if not, I'll be just glad.

Andrea

[spanner570]

Interesting stuff.

In March 2021 I made a 1/144 diorama depicting a Corvette destroying a U. Boat, were I modelled the boat half out of the sea before it's final plunge.

I too thought long and hard before deciding to proceed. To me, it's not glorifying violence, I was simply trying to see if I could model the actual moment in time.....I had thought of posting an image of the build, then remembered, quite rightly, that unsolicited images on someone else's thread were verboten.

War is violent and I don't see the difference in modelling something that has the potential to kill, as opposed to showing the result of what these things can do.

I don't really care for modelling human 'Bits', but if the builder shows such stuff, that's fine. It's his or hers build.

I, for one would like to see Dave's take on the subject - Free to do what he wants with his model.


Gunter Prien - U 47

[Tim Marlow]

I agree with the sentiment “your model, your rules”, but also reserve the right to like or not like the final result. Personally, I don’t like gratuitous violence and am not interested in its depiction.
I too was brought up in the era of war comics and action men dolls. Absolutely loved them :thumb2: . As most of us on here, it interested me beyond the superficial pictorial level. In my case It turned me into an avid reader of military history, and that, in turn, made me pretty much a pacifist at heart.
After all, I like watching the great bike builds on here, but don’t want to see a roadside crash depicted, along with a decapitated or mutilated rider……something that happens all too frequently in the real world.
Oh, and before anyone brings out the standard Woke, Cancel culture, Snowflake, Politically correct etc type reply please remember where these terms originated. They may be in general use now, but they were originally coined by those on the extreme fringes of the political spectrum, both right and left. They were used to defend extreme views in the absence of any real supporting argument. Do you really want to align yourself with those sorts of world views.

[Gern]

Depicting suffering, death and destruction in whatever form - pictures, writing, film, model etc. will not change reality. They happen every minute of every hour of every day, all over the world. Sometimes as a result of deliberate actions, sometimes as accidents.

It's up to the painter/writer/modeller whether he/she wants to depict such things and it's up to the individual viewer whether he/she wants to see them - you don't HAVE to look!