To scratch or not to scratch, that is the itchy question

[Guest]

Ok, I may be a bit of a die hard but there is something seriously bothering me, in pages on these and other forums folk talk about this and that what they say are scratch built from "bought parts", boat fittings off the peg, planking off the peg, masts and rigging off the peg, cannons ,anchors and even hulls off the peg, surely that is NOT scratch built, nor is butchering a "KIT" to do your own thing, the results are indeed excellent, but they are not scratch built, to me scratch means starting from scratch, as from nothing, if you get a piece of wood and cut it down to a plank, shape the plank, fit the plank,make another plank, shape it, fit it etc, not buy a bunch of ready made planks, I know some things are just too restrictive to be viable but dont call it it something it aint,

[Gern]

Another good question.

I'm not trying to be facetious or anything, but shouldn't we have some sort of definition of 'scratch building' before we start debating it? I agree that merely buying ready made add ons to kits does not satisfy my definition of scratch building, even if someone else thinks it is. But how far back do you go?

What about ready made sheets and sections (square, round, hollow etc) of plastic? If you buy a sheet of plastic and cut out a series of shapes to construct a box shape and add a ready made section of pipe just cut to the right length; does that count as 'scratch'?

What about the guy who says that you should not use ready made sheet or section; you should create your own materials? Does that mean planting your own tree and waiting for it to grow so you can make wooden bits?

We all have some idea in our head of what we accept as 'scratch' and what we don't. Every modeller would agree that there is a line between 'scratch' and 'non-scratch', but I bet if you spoke to ten different modellers, you'd get at least half a dozen different lines!

I've seen huge arguments and rows on other forums about this very issue; especially when folks are trying to set rules for competitions. I don't recall seeing any definitive answer - just lots of different rules applied to specific situations.

One thing I really liked about our group build. Other than the fact it had to be an FW 190 or variant there were no modelling rules! (OK. There are rules about posting pics of the unstarted kit, start/end dates etc., but nothing about what you build or how you build it or what you add). If any group want to set boundaries and lines on what is and isn't acceptable, I have no problem with that; as long as they apply to everyone and don't change half way through. I have the choice whether to join and accept the rules or not to join. If I hadn't been OK with the ideas laid down for our build, I wouldn't have joined. Simples!

The idea that someone has a different idea to mine is great! That gives us something to discuss, an' it'd be a boring old world if nobody had different ideas. But I don't see any reason to lose sleep over it if he/she won't accept my idea. That only means I'm not accepting theirs either!

I really am going to have to stop these late night/early morning rambles! I do waffle on sometimes, so don't take my comments personally whatever you do!

Gotta try and get some kip. I'm off to Cosford in a few hours.

Gern

[yak face]

i agree with gern, i think its one of those things that can be interpreted in many different ways, for me personally if i say ive scratch built something then it means that ive had to create from basic materials something that was either missing or unusable in the kit.An example would be a very basic cockpit ie floor, seat,instrument panel and very little else, i would add as many details as i could by making them from scraps of plastic, fuse wire , etc and if i couldnt get a photo etched belt set usually making these from wine foil as well.I would say in the description that i had added scratchbuilt details to the cockpit, i wouldnt say that i had scratchbuilt the cockpit, i can see your gripe if people are claiming to have scratchbuilt detail when all theyve done is buy it and fit it, so i think its just a case of everyone making it clear about what theyve actually done. Like gern im off to cosford too! cheers tony

[Ian M]

In my veiw scratch built would say it was built from the bottom up from a plan or drawing, from basic materials, be it plasti-card, wood or cardboard.

If its a kit its a kit, if bought as a kit in one box or lots of boxes.

If its a kit which is converted then its a kit ´thats converted.

Now Im off into the garden to plant a few trees, I feel like building a galleon in about 50 years time.

Ian M

[Guest]

Interesting debate but one that for me, and I stress this is my own personal feeling, is what I hate about modelling. It would be so easy to be very facetious and say who cares at what point scratch becomes kit. However that would be so disrespectful of your question which I am sure is well meant.

I have the highest regard for scratch builders, I think they are artists as apposed to people like me who build kits mainly OOB, so in comparison, I paint by numbers. To me scratch, as has been said, means made from scratch, no pre formed parts. However, to take it then to the point of saying that the materials have to be sourced from natural things would be just silly. To say something like a ladder 'scratch built' for an aircraft out of shaped section plastic strip is not scratch built because it uses pre formed shaped plastic does not wash. That same piece of pre shaped section plastic strip could have also been used to make something totally different so does not stop something from being scratch built.

However, if I bought five kits and used parts from each to make a version that was different to the existing kits, that would not be scratch building, it would be 'Kit modification' which may involve some degree of scratch building to get the bits to fit together.

So, excuse my harsh start to my answer but for me, modelling is great fun, very relaxing and brings together people of all abilities long may that continue but to get too heavy into what is what and 'rivet counting' takes away what I love about this great hobby

[Guest]

Hi David

Cannons - "cigar box wood" and I turned the barrels out of aluminium

Hull - a "few" bought planks left over from the past 90% planks cut from "cigar box wood"

Gun port hinges - guess what from "cigar boxes" ( is that cheating?)

ps you can see some of my "scratch build" in my gallery peter22

all the best Peter

[ATTACH]14526.vB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]23010.IPB[/ATTACH]