Is it just me ?

[Guest]

Since coming back to model making there is one HUGE differance above all others that ive noticed.

After market "extra's". In other words the photo etch and resin stuff.

Now dont get me wrong, im certainly not saying its a bad thing, but, how the hell did we all get by without it before?

What has really bought this to my attention came about this weekend. I have never made a ship kit before but have always fancied having a crack at one. I think they look fantastic on display.

Anyway, i love the look of the Tamiya 1/350th "Mogami". Probably a real tester as my first ship kit, but hey ho. The kit itself is around the £130 price range give or take a few quid, but then i saw that Lion Roar do an up grade set for it, very smart looking set it is......but the price was the same as the kit itself again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really can not justify what would be over £250 on a single kit, as it is the £130 would be a very expensive Xmas pressie in advance from the Mrs.

Im sure there are those that will buy both the kit and the upgrade, and im sure the results will be terrific, but it wont be happening for me.

From the reviews ive read on the net, the kit straight out of the box is stunning and does include some PE anyway, so i will be content with this.

It just seems that these days virtually every kit that is bought out has these extras to add on? Thank goodness at the shows i attend they still have catagories where they judge kits as "out of the box".

[Ian M]

Martin. I am sure that the Mogami will be a cracker OOB. I would think that the extra detail in the PE it just a question of to thick a part or something like that. Plastic does have its limitations.

Can man justify the price. NO £130 is a lot of dosh. £250 is seriously a lot of dosh. And this is comming from a guy that has brought the whole nine yards for a flower class corvette a la GLS.....serious amounts of dosh there to---Probably up over the £500 I dont know. ( and not sure if I want to).

There will always be people that say thats wronge, that should not bee there, thats to thick, thats the wronge shape. I say one thing. Have they seen the real thing? Do they have the building plans in their head?

I love my hobby but I would not go as far as saying I am an expert on everything I build. I love my spitfires, It was undoubtedly the most gracefull thing ever to come out of WWII. Am i an expert on them. NO.

I Like what I build.

You show yours so that will probably have an influence on your builds. I doubt I will ever get good enough to put a model on public display, so I can make do with out.

Another thing that holds the prices up is the suply and demand chain. You want it he makes it- you pay what he wants for it. to many make the same and some one will fold and find another subject.

PE is not an easy field to phathom. Take a look at HMS Hood. Two firms doing sets for them. Both claim to be the more correct. Some even buy both sets and use bits from both. If you are only a casual builder and not a fanatic, you dont have a chance. Well you do come to think of it. The chance of taking an already great kit and turning it into a bad model with bits from different refits.

Ian M

[Guest]

Hi Martin , I personally think the extras for kits are great , it gives you the option to go into greater detail if you want , saying that an out of the box kit done well is gonna look a lot better than a kit with extras done poorly , if all models came with all the extras as you have said they would cost a fortune - least this way if your pockets are deep and you like extras you can take your model that little bit further if you choose , I`ve got a few kits in the stash which will be made out of the box and a few that have got loads of extras for I`ve just got the new Lotus 79 F1 car from HK and ordered the PE kit from HK also some martini decals from the US and zero martini green from hiroboy - I want to make a kit that is gonna be just a little bit different to what everyones going to make, all in all this model when finnished its gonna cost me abut £60-70 which sounds expensive but it would cost more just to go to one football match or a couple of nights on the lash with your mates or even taking the wife out for a meal now that would be a waste of money LOL

end of the day mate the choices are their for everyone as I said before an out of the box build can look fantastic , as long as your happy with the finnished result thats all what counts

All the best

Richy ( PS great post , I`m sure you will have opened a can of worms with this one , get ready for many different veiws )

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies guys. Some great points from them....most importantly the point that "so long as the person making the model is happy with the result at the end"

I do have a couple of kits that i have bought extras for, and i certainly do not disagree with these extras being available...they can and do make a big differance to many builds. As Richy C has stated, compared to many other hobbies/interests ours is relatively cheap in comparrison. I dont drink, smoke or keep expensive women so spending £130 on a kit is justified.

Ian M, i like your point also about having two different manufacturers both claiming to have the superior set of extras for the "Hood"...it really does not make it easy for the average consumer!!!!!

I guess as has been pointed out, it all comes down to demand and supply. I will continue to do some kits OOB and others with the extras, not sure what makes me decide which ones get the extras ?

Still be good to get others opinions...thanks everyone :-)

[Ian M]

Just want to add; Some times it can definatly pay to buy the kit and look at it really well. I have made the mistake of buying a kit and some brass for it only to find that the detail in the kit is more that good enough :-/

Also I have noticed some of tamiyas newer kits, eg the classic Honda racer. To get the result that is shown on the box front, involved the purchase of extra parts, from tamiya. Now that in my mind is a bit of a rip off. Why dont they just go the whole hog and package the kit compleat.

[Guest]

I can and cannot agree with you on the Honda racer bike Ian if that makes sense, a guy I know is doing the said Honda blog on another forum , yes a very expensive kit for a 1/12 but he has used extras ie- rivets and the tamiya PE wheel kit from hong kong and tbh it makes a massive difference I promise you , although I love doing military stuff my passion is for race cars and bikes where extras can and do make a big difference , I`ve got a few basic 1/20 f1 cars to make - by adding cloth and pe seatbelts also after market decals ( tobacco ) and using a tyre logo stencil it can make a massive difference

again just my opinion

Richy

[Guest]

Mmmmm again some very good points. I do know of a friend who did but a PE set only to find as you say the original plastic kit patrts equal if not better than the PE. I think there are very obvious occasions where PE should automatically be included in kits....one example being the railings on ships, i cant ever imagine there being a case where plastic will out do PE on that front? and can it really cost more to put in PE than plastic for railings, especially when it seems that a lot of railings can be used on more than one kit?

Would love to see that Honda being built Richy, sounds a good en :-)

[Gern]

This is a very timely discussion for me!

I've been gloating over the goodies I picked up from the Coventry show today. Your talk about after market goodies fits nicely with something I got today.

One of the kits I bought is the 1/32 F 105 from Trumpeter. If you've seen this, you'll know it's a big, heavy kit. Looking at the undercarriage legs from the kit, the axles for the two main wheels are spindly bits of plastic less than 1 mm diameter. There's no way I'd be confident that these would hold the weight of this kit. Glory be though, someone else realised this and has included a set of replacement white metal parts! And this is not the only kit I've bought second hand that's had metal undercarriage replacements.

One area, I would suggest, where aftermarket parts can be very useful.

I also bought the Trumpeter 1/32 F4U Corsair. This one has a bunch of tiny PE bits and a length of brass wire. The idea is that you can assemble these into hinges which enable you to operate the ailerons and the folding wings! Why? They look like they're going to be really fiddly to put together and add hours to the build. But I can't believe any serious modeller is going to want to 'play' with his kit in this fashion. (Yeah. I know we all fly them around the room with appropriate 'whooshing' noises but this is not the same thing!).

I think Trumpeter have dropped these things from their later kits, but it's a mystery to me why they included them in the first place.

Oh well. Back to my gloating!

Gern

[Guest]

Here is my two cents regarding extras, the most i will ever pay out for in extras is about 7 quid this usually means aircraft seat belts anything other than that in my view is a bit of a waste especially when you are talking an extra 130 quid for these extras.Now iam aware that some people will go to huge lengths to get a kit as close as possible and if you want to spend that money, well that is their choice to do so but i have never seen what difference a metal gun barrel makes to a kit once it is painted.

scott

[Guest]

Hi Scott, the gun barrel is a classic example....i have a friend that has bought a barrel for a tank he is making, he does the same with every tank kit he buys, im not sure how much they are ? Anyway i asked him why he buys the metal barrels rather than use the ones in the kit.....his answer was and i quote "I dont know, because they make em i suppose"

Now dont get me wrong, thats his choice and i have no problem at all with anyone buying these extras, as i say ive used extras myself amd intend to carry on doing so in certain areas, but what i dont understand is how did people manage before these were available....they used the stuff in the box.

Perhaps someone can tell me the advantage of buying a metal gun barrell as opposed to using the plastic one that comes with the kit...i think i may have over heard a conversation sayint the metal ones are more "true" to shape and hold the shape better than plastic????

But as has been stated ......once painted i honestly dont think i could tell the differance between the two barrells!!!!!!

Certainly things like seat belts in PE, railings on ships etc have an advantage....anyway, thanks for the input everyone :-)

[Guest]

Interesting discussion and one that, as usual, there is no definitive answer. I normally do not buy any extras until I have seen how it will look without them. Re the metal gun barrels. Interestingly, the 1:48 Marder that I am building (going back for re spray as I have over cooked the weathering) is the first kit I have bought a metal barrel for and it looks great. Would you know if I didn't tell you it had one? Doubt it, unless I made a mess of sanding the seam which, come on, is a pain.

I never buy any for my 1:48 aircraft simply because I tend to build Eduard that comes with the photo etch anyway. However, I rarely use all of it, some of it is so small and so hidden, I just don't bother. It has to be said though that PE seat belts take some beating. Two things I have bought deliberately to, hopefully, enhance a couple of old kits is the PE set for my 1:35 Panther recovery vehicle and a set for the old SAS Jeep. The idea of having PE cages for the jerry cans instead of just sticking them on does appeal.

However, I do have the Airfix Illustrious on my 'to get' list for which a new set of PE has come out for. I am sure that it will enhance it and at £47, about the same price of the kit, I would have to be very, very impressed to get it. I would be more likely to get, if anything, the PE set to enhance the Sea King helos on the ship. I am sure PE rotor blades will look better. But is it worth spending twice the price? Does it make it twice as good? I doubt it but there are those, and I respect their views, that feel it is essential.

[tr1ckey66]

Hi Martin

I guess this question all boils down to what the modeler sees as 'value' and is totally down to personal taste and budget.

I came back to modeling, a bit like you, after a long absence. When I started my first kits detail up parts just weren't in the mix. Back then if I hadn't got glue all over the canopy and melted all the joints with too much liquid cement I'd have called it a victory.

Nowadays I do like to add photo etch and resin extras sometimes because (for me) they do add value to both the finished piece and the build ( I enjoy building fiddly bits of metal which ping onto the carpet every 2 minutes!). I do feel a bit awkward now because I am one of those people who will make PE hinges work (I've got a set working hinges on the front fenders of my 1/35 late tiger 1). I do agree that sometimes the PE isn't actually as accurate as the plastic part and, if this is the case, I'll stick with the kit part. Another option of course is to scratch build/detail your model. Tony (Yak Face) builds are great cos he can take a really quite basic kit and turn it into a master piece with nowt but wire, plastic card and foil from wine bottles (the amount of plonk that man must get thru (hic!) only jokin!)

Another thing is, some kits have virtually everything you need in the box! The latest dragon armour kits have PE, separate track link (magic track) and some even have turned metal barrels. I think there are 2 advantages to having a metal barrel: 1. the barrel won't warp or droop over time, and 2. you don't have to get rid of the seam along it's length, but that's not to say I don't use the plastic barrels sometimes. The FW190 by Eduard I've just completed had PE and canopy masks all for just over £20 (which I think is quite good value).

Whatever it is we decide to build, and how, I think the important thing is to enjoy it. Isn't that what it's all about?

BTW - the Mogami sounds like one monster of a kit!!! Enjoy the build mate, I for one can't wait to see it complete - full etch or not.

eace:

[Guest]

Some more fab replies guys, and very valid points. I know it is possible to get some real bargins out there that already do include both photo etch and resin...i recently bought a helicopter kit in 1/72nd scale that has a resin engine and loads of PE for belts etc.....the cost....an amazing £5. I will find it and put some pics up.

I can see that there are some cracking models out there that will benifit no end from having some extras added...and i guess its just another extension of our great hobby. Im so glad i dont have carpet in the modelling shed...sounds like trying to find that bit of PE that has just flown across the room could be a bugger to find lol :-) Thanks again guys, regards Martin.

[Guest]

Hi everyone, thanks for the welcome I am looking forward to reading more of the forums. As to Martin`s thread about pe and resin extras, I know what you mean, there was no such thing to add bar paint many years ago, but as I have returned to my no1 hobby over the past few years it has changed. I still build kits OOB and relatively happy with the results, but I have also used both resin and pe parts, and yes some really enhance the kit but in some cases I have thought what was the point?. I read some of the articles in various mags and when some modelmakers alter an idler gear on some tank ( which I also build ) because it is a few thou out on the kit ? I despair, If it is totally wrong then fair enough but I build kits because a- I enjoy it and b- I want to, but the micrometer does not come out. If someone needs to go to that detail, well why not scratch build, and leave us to enjoy building OOB. But each to their own, I`ll shut up now, keep te kits coming and the glue flowing.( by the way I used a metal barrel on a Tiger 1 but it came with the kit! good old Dragon. G.

[Guest]

I have to say Gareth i agree with what you've said but as for my remark about tank barrels i will say that if extra PE parts come with the kits then great, but as i have stated the only extras i will pay for now is aircraft seatbelts simply because i don't think they look correct without them.

scott