Making stuff

[Guest]

Ok please dont have a quick look and move on you will see why.

I am going to lose my job at the end of december ad have been looking at ways to work and enjoy what I do.

I see people looking at turned barrles for tanks etc and wondered what the market is like for this sort of thing?

I am looking to get a smaller lathe and milling machine and wanted to sound out you guys as to wether there is and distace in this is? there ever things yo want made but can not get ?

What do you expect to pay for one off's etc or regular stuff that is always needed.

So Please plese have a look and let me know how and where the land lies here so I can make a call as to look into this or not. I have the room and the know how to get this done.

I am always told it is better to work for you! than for the man,

[Guest]

sorry to here about you loosing your job soon,as for the business end of this you might find it difficult to compete against the chinese as they flood the market with this sort of thing at prices that are hard to compete with. Just mho, ran into this trying to do something similar with full size motorcycle accessories.Might be different with armor kits as they seem to have a wider intrest group, maybe one of the tread heads here will have better info for ya ,best regards and good luck in your venture

[Guest]

One of the big issues with this is the fact that even if everyone on this forum who is currently active bought something, you would be hard pushed to see a return on your investment. As Trey has said, there is a huge number of suppliers out there and potential customers. Getting your products/services to the potential customers is not easy in a flooded market.

One rule of thumb I have always found to be fairly accurate is that a new business will not make a profit in the first year, you have to be able to sustain yourself and family (if relevant) for that period while any money coming in goes back into advertising and materials.

Setting a retail price for your service or goods is also very tricky. We often look at some of the bespoke or off the shelf modifications/accessories for kits and think they are expensive. I reality, the profit margin on them is very small given that there is not mass sales for every manufacturer even if there are mass customers, there are just so many at it.

You have to come up with the ideas of making a potential customer come to you rather than anyone else. Also you have to consider mass producing some parts and offering them up to retailers at a wholesale, and maybe even 30 credit terms. Initially you may consider doing this on a sale or return business so that a retailer could try out your products without risk of being stuck for stock. They know their market and they will not take risks in this day and age.

Foe one offs or mass produced the costings are very important. You have to source your materials and equipment down the the slimmest penny as you have to factor all of this, including things like business insurance, banking charges post and packing and your time. Whenever a customer hands over money for something, they have to be contributing to these costs not you. You also have to live so your customers have to pay to keep you in your ideal lifestyle. getting the costings right as a manufacturer is not easy at all.

If you are losing your job through redundancy (I am sure that there will be a few that do before these dark days in the UK are over, myself included) then you may be able to get help and advice on starting up a new business from your local agencies. Ask at your Citizens Advice, Jobcentre or other such places. Depending on your age, you may also be able to look at a grant. At least they will be able to offer advice on creating a business plan which is essential if you are going to deal with banks and insurance.

Don't think that this all sounds over the top, it isn't. Setting up a business is a big deal and you need to get it right, there are plenty of people out there who's job it is to advise you and, initially a lot of this advice is free. Also don't think I am trying to talk you out of it, I certainly am not, in fact I wish you the best for your enterprise but get your thinking cap on now. Do your research, check out suppliers, work out costings but above all, be realistic. Something like this may mean that to get it off the ground yo have to work for 'the man' part time to live on while the rst of the time you work on your products, it will not happen over night.

I do wish you good luck with it though.

[Guest]

Some good points there from Graham and Trey, maybe try it as a part time thing first, or even experiment with selling on Ebay while your still working, sorry to hear about your job, it is very tough times at present.The very best of luck to you.

[Guest]

Kai, I just want to ask a boringly sensible question but which is cruicial to your potential here and that is what is your level of experience and expertise with machining?

As has been noted you are up against the Chineese so you have to be able to match thier quality and price as well as be able to sell enough volume to generate a living salary for yourself. Check out Tankzone and have a look at the Hen Long aftermarket stuff. Unfortuately it is really good and you would need to be producing things in a matter of minutes to compete, which would require CNC capabilities and a level of expertise that can set up aluminium machining.

I think for an individual such as yourself you should be looking at one off individual commissions that the Chineese wil not want to bother setting up for but you are then looking at significant cost projects that is going to be difficult in this day and age to get modellers to pay for.

As Fenlander says this all sounds a bit negative but the better prepared you are the more chance of success so get as much advice and help as you can.

[Guest]

I think you are right it was the one off things I was looking to make. The things you can not get elsewhere.

running costs will be low as it will be at home. I also do a little airbrush work as well so between the 2 I was hoping to make a small living off it.

I am not after a lot just enough to be happy and pay the bills

[Guest]

So what is your level of experience and expertise with machining?

[Guest]

Well I was a time served blacksmith but a car accident left me disabled.

I just sold my large lathe/milling machine cause it was to big lol the house lights dimmed as it started.

I would say say I know a little, no one ever knows it all. I have traind a good few apprentices in my time an most have gone on to good jobs after haveing a good grounding lol in the trade.

I don't have any CNC at home a little rich for my pocket now I am just looking to get by and enjoy my work again.

[Guest]

It's a difficult area to get into Kai as I know of a couple of steam engine modellers recently who have given up as they have found to be very difficult to make money and they both had sophisticated CNC machinery.

I would definately try to concentrate on special one off commissions such as making complete items like engines, boilers, auxilliary equipment etc. Possibly ring some of the people still in the business i.e. model boiler makers and engine manufacturers and see if they can help direct you to the areas where there may be some business.

Making accessories for plastic kits may be another arm to your business but I suspect that you will find the environment extremly competetive and difficult to generate any income from.

[Ian M]

Most of the serious thoughts well covered I thought I would try and expand your thoughts on what type of things you wish to make.

Why limit your self to the modeling world? Whats the largest participating hbby in the UK? Fishing. There are dozens of small firms making things for anglers. turned brass, allu, stainless. Every thing from rd rests to landing net blocks.

An Advert in the right place will probably bring in a few enquiries.

Regarding the China imports; I would rather buy from a British suplyer any day. It might be that they knock things out as cheap as chips, But they are also more off the same. Find some thing out of the ordinary and you might have the edge. Still you will have a lot of work finding the correct drawings and gatting things 110% correct. People buying a brass barrel for their tank or a set of canons for their battleship expect the bestmade and most accurat things for the lowest price. If you can turn out some thing exceptional at around the same price I would say go for it. Start it as a hobby and see how it runs from there.

I know of a few people that have started as a hobbyist, and over time have had to drop there full time job to get through the orders.

I wish you all the best and hope that things turn out well for you ( 'scuse the pun)

Ian M

PS If we should need some thing, any thing turned or machined, I take it we are welcome to contact you? ( hey its a start).

[Guest]

Yes by all means just started to look at some small cnc stuff to see I if cn break into that market looks quicker and more the thing to turn out good jobs for people then I would like to move on to milling turrets etc I know it may be a big step but I have to start somthing as getting laid off at the end of december will be hard.

[Guest]

well fingers crossed I will have me a cnc lathe by tonight

than I have just seen a cnc milling machine as well lol might have both

[Guest]

how much m8..?....john

[Guest]

Well done Kai, now you can do some much more serious production runs.

[Guest]

Well bad news I missed the lathe it went for £801 so just a little over what I can afford right now and I feel a bit crapy but I hope I will find somthing in the end