Re-enactors - why??

[Guest]

Hi all;

This is going to be an emotive subject - re-enactors. Personally, I wonder why they do it; no matter how hard they try, it just doesn't look real. And then there's those who don't really try - mixed uniforms; Army and RAF with beards; modern haircuts etc. And wearing the rank badges and medals and para wings; I had to work bl**dy hard for mine, and seeing a weekend wannabee swanning around wearing it all makes my blood boil! If you want to wear the kit, join up and do it for real. I've even seen them saluting each other - do you hold the Queen's Commission!?!? The Sealed Knot I can understand - but trying to be a Battle of Britain fighter pilot...oh come on.

[Guest]

I can see where you are coming from and I can see why you find some of it offensive. However, the vast majority do for a hobby, just as we make models. Do we condemn a model of a tank because it is small and made of plastic?

I agree that sometimes the effort they put in is downright none existent and even to my untrained eye, they often look ridiculous. However, to the vast majority of people who watch these events, they see it as "Living History". However, no one thinks of them as real but they do show a lot of people a representation of a subject that many of us modellers hold dear, Military History.

If you took it further then why build reproduction Spitfires and Mustangs? In fact, why maintain them at all, they are generally quite inaccurate especially regarding colour. I for one though will give a deep sigh of sadness when the last one lands for the final time.

Re enactors are just that, actors, they play a part just as much as actors on a stage or on TV and films. Nothing more ridiculous than John Wain winning WWII given that he couldn't hold the Alamo..... I feel that your dislike of the re enactors has it's roots in your own experience. As someone who has done photography for many years, I still cringe with embarrassment at the way that photographers and photography is portrayed in films and TV programmes.

It is a personal thing and, for myself, I appreciate the time and, for some, large amounts of money to look as near the part as they can while moving around or even driving historical vehicles around for my personal pleasure of seeing them. I know it isn't real but I can see what you mean re saluting. OK in a scene being acted out but not as they are just walking around the show or event. But surely, that also goes for those in films and TV again.

[AlanG]

Saying people should 'join up and do it for real' isn't always as easy as you like. Me and my mate went to join the RAF at the same time and little did he know he had a heart condition that has stopped him from pursuing a career in the RAF. I was lucky and was accepted and spent 17 years serving my country. He had to go and find a 'civvie job'. But he now likes to re-enact WWII things and to be honest i like to have the banter with him about it.

Personally what i do find offensive is the way Hollywood trys to 're-write' history just so they can make a film with the Americans in it/winning the war/having people in positions they would never have been.

[Guest]

Hi guys, can quite understand your feelings about re enactors, the best way is not to take them too seriously,

I have spent the weekend at euro militaire & a few of these groups were in attendance & were generally ignored by the public & enthusiasts alike, I agree that they serve a purpose

when it comes to portraying a moment in time & to a degree an educational tool for the younger generation but when two guys dressed as imperial stormtroopers from star wars were grabbing all the attention away from the napoleonics you do have to wonder whether the public want educating.

to anyone who was there, did you see that amazing ju 88 mistel diorama, I did see marcus nicholls from tamiya magazine taking some pictures of it so hopefully it'll appear.

[stona]

Personally what i do find offensive is the way Hollywood trys to 're-write' history just so they can make a film with the Americans in it/winning the war/having people in positions they would never have been.

Don't get me going on that! It's not a new phenomenon,Hollywood was even at it during the war.

Objective Burma"(1945) in which Errol Flynn,an Australian who stayed in the U.S.A.during the war, portrayed an American paratrooper operating in Burma caused much offense in the U.K. for it's representation of what was infact largely a commonwealth effort with a huge contribution from India.It was withdrawn and not shown until 1952,with an apology. It even prompted a Times editorial.

"It is essential both for the enemy and the allies to understand how it came about that the war was won . . . nations should know and appreciate the efforts other countries than their own made to the common cause".

Re. re-enactors I think there is a wide variety just like anything else. Some seem to make little effort and just have a bit of fun whereas others take it very seriously indeed. I read a list once of the sort of kit,mostly original but occasionally replica,that one group of WW2 german army reenactors required. It was long and very expensive and difficult to acquire. We'd call them rivet counters!!! I'm sure there are many inbetween.

I don't really "get it" but I don't have any problem with what they do.

I heard that at a recent re-enactment of the battle of Waterloo,on the original battlefield in Belgium,involving many hundreda of re-enactors from various groups they nearly had a real battle. The reason? The "French" re-enactors refused to lose the battle. Not really re-enacting then were they lol.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

I think if you look at it from the persepective of youngsters the whole idea of acting out war time scenarios does have value in so far as it reminds them of the times in our history that they should know about as we try to educate them into making sure that these things do not happen again. There will always be those who tend to be that bit more cavalier with the truth but that occurs in any hobby anyway and we mustn't decry those who are genuinely trying to portray things accurately but get it wrong.

As for the aspect of earning the positions I don't think anyone mistakes them for trying to make out that they are something they aren't and are trying to take credit for something that they have no rights to. I'm sure that they are not seen as anything other than simply actors.

I look at it this way, I think one of the best war movies of all time was "Saving Private Ryan" but I don't hold it against any of the actors for trying to show that they were heros when in fact they are only actors. What I do think though is that this movie should be compulsory viewing for all youngsters to graphically show them the futility and horror of war in the hope that when they grow older they may play thier part in trying to avoid it again. That must surely be a good thing?

[Guest]

I think that the re-enactors have their place in today's society, even if some of them don't look quite right as someone placed in their post. They strive to get everything from the era that they are representing, I spoke to one girl once who said that she had searched high and low around the country for some WWII WAAF uniform and was really happy that she had got it. The uniform was dated 1942 or something which made her day. As far as medals and ribbons go, if it is part of the uniform that they are using then fine. I would only find it offensive if they turned up at say a remeberence parade wearing them. I have worked hard to get mine and wear my ribbons with pride at work. I don't think for one minute any of them would and they tend to keep themselves to Military meetings or Duxford airshows to show the public what it was like.

As the re-enctors go there is a chap who goes to Duxford every airshow, he wears either a Luftwaffe Generals uniform or recently a DAK Generals outfit complete with Knights Cross and Baton! He is harmless, wlaks around acting the part and doesn't upset anyone. He has his place and where and when he chooses to wear it, is surely down to his personal choice. All I can say is live and let live, I have been called a few things for making models, but as I have said, I get more enjoyment sitting at my bench than sitting in front of 22 players kicking a pigs stomach about!

[Guest]

I saw the chap at Duxford this year dressed in the Afrika Corps Uniform, he certainly knows how to strut lol. First time I had seen anyone in such a uniform and it was quite a surprise.

[Guest]

Each to their own. Spent a summer working at a Viking museum and several of the actors they employed in costume had other gigs as well; from gladiators to WWI tommies. While some of that was at military fairs and so on a lot of it was with schools - the living history idea. Certainly the ones with an interest in vikings that I knew did a lot of research into creating their own props and garments, right down to researching which plants could be used for dying clothes etc.

I do understand where you are coming from regarding ensignia though, especially medals and awards. I play airsoft and often you'll get people trying to recreate various load outs and uniforms. The general rule of thumb, certainly for modern load outs is no specific unit ensignia and I don't think anyone would be daft enough to turn up with medals. For WWII load outs though pretty much anything goes. Thats not out of any lack of respect but for the same reason we use to run around with wooden sticks and play soldiers in the woods - who doesn't want to be Michael Caine parachuting into Norfolk to kidnap Churchill?

Cyrano

[PJP]

I have a daughter in the film industry and a very well known actor in an SS uniform told her that simply putting on the uniform made him feel as though he had put on the character.

Quite often it seems, "the clothing maketh the man".

Ask anyone who has appeared on stage!

Peter

[Ian M]

Hi all;.... And wearing the rank badges and medals and para wings; I had to work bl**dy hard for mine, and seeing a weekend wannabee swanning around wearing it all makes my blood boil! ....

Is it not illegal to wear a medal in public that you have not earnt? I seem to remember reading one day that it is or was.

As for the re-enactors, I just dont get it either.

Ian M

[stona]

Is it not illegal to wear a medal in public that you have not earnt? I seem to remember reading one day that it is or was. Ian M

I don't know the law but some sad bugger ended up in court recently for wearing an array of medals to which he wasn't entitled at a remembrance day parade.

I also watched a programme about the Royal Hospital at Chelsea and one new pensioner was relieved of a medal which he had quite innocently and honestly been wearing since the war as it turned out he wasn't entitled to it. Obviously a very different case but it is taken seriously.

Cheers

Steve