The One That Got Away - the story of Franz von Werra

[Guest]

I turned on the TV at lunchtime, and was delighted to see that this classic film had just started. I hadn't seen it for ages. Did anyone else watch it?

I've got a Bf109E in my meagre stash, maybe I could do it as von Werra's plane.

Also, on Discovery History is a series called War Digs with Harry Harris. An interesting show about digging up crashed WW2 aircraft. The most recent was about a Stirling that was shot down by friendly fire. Interestingly, it was by a Hurricane that was working in tandem with a Havoc. The Havoc was equipped with radar and a huge spotlight in the nose, so that it could illuminate the target for the fighter.

[stona]

I've got a Bf109E in my meagre stash, maybe I could do it as von Werra's plane.

Good subject. There are several photos of the crashed aircraft and the "Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report" survives.

There must be decals available too.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

hi men, on a slightly different subject is there any sites where you could search for crashed aircraft, i ask because i have heard from a few different sources that a german ww2 bomber went down in this area.

thx guys

jeff.

:computer:

[stona]

hi men, on a slightly different subject is there any sites where you could search for crashed aircraft, i ask because i have heard from a few different sources that a german ww2 bomber went down in this area.thx guys

jeff.

:computer:

Hi Jeff,you really need a little information about what crashed and when before you can start to try to identify the aircraft more fully in surviving records.

A good place to start is with the local press. There would have been coverage of such an exciting event in the local papers,maybe even some photographs if there was more than a smoking hole in the ground. This will be archived somewhere,if the paper is no longer going then city or county archives may have something. Also worth checking in your local library (if it hasn't been closed down).

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

where abouts in wales are you jeff, we had a german junkers 88 shot down in brombourough on the wirral in just 11 minutes from take off to landing of the fighters and an american b24 liberator went down in prenton. both quite close to north wales.thinking off doing a dio of the bromborough crash some time soon. come on steve,what have you got on the junkers ju 88a-1 works number 4068

[stona]

come on steve,what have you got on the junkers ju 88a-1 works number 4068

You've got me a bit confused now Andrew!

The only werknummer 4068 I can find is a Ju 52, D-AFCD,named "Erich Albrecht".

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

The plane was a Junkers (I think) and I was told it crashed just above gilfach goch s,wales.just 2miles from me.

thx for info men

jeff.

[Guest]

You've got me a bit confused now Andrew!The only werknummer 4068 I can find is a Ju 52, D-AFCD,named "Erich Albrecht".

Cheers

Steve

did a quick search and found this steve. i cannot see the nummber on the picture of the data plate

http://www.oldwirral.com/files/Ju88_Crash_at_Brom.pdf

[Guest]

Back to Franz von Werra. A bit of googling shows that Airfix's new-mould 1/72 E4 has the decals for his plane. My Tamiya kit is an E3, so if I buy the Airfix kit I should be able to do some swapping to get my Tamiya kit in the markings I want. I can still build the Airfix kit when I feel like it.

From what I can tell, the canopy is the most visible difference between the E3 and E4. Is that right?

Is this an E3 or an E4?

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/Bf-109E-JG3-(+-Werra/pages/1-Bf-109E4-Stab-II.JG3-(+-Franz-von-Werra-WNr-1480-crash-landed-Kent-1940-01.html

[stona]

For some reason I seem to have missed the developments in this thread!

That's a fantastic story Andrew. I enjoyed reading that very much,thanks. I'd have to do some checking but I suspect the Werknummer given for the Ju 88 is wrong. This is not at all unusual,errors were often made,even by Luftwaffe clerks,when entering such information.

Tony the principal differences between an E-3 and E-4 were the armament and the canopy and armour.

Both had cannon in the wings (unlike the E-1).

The E-3 had MG FF cannons. There were two versions,one had an electrical firing system,the other an electrical-pneumatic firing system. Both had an electrical-pneumatic cocking system.

The E-4 had MG FFM cannons. The M meant the weapon fired the "Minen-Geschosspatrone". This was a thin walled,explosive round which was much more destructive than the round fired by the standard MG FF cannon. The ammunition was NOT interchangeable between the two.

From the factory the E-4 also had the heavier framed,squarer,canopy complete with armoured head rest.

It is almost impossible to tell which is which from a photograph as many E-3s were retro-fitted to E-4 standard. The only sure way is by Werknummer. There are no external differences between an E-3 with the newer canopy and an E-4. I think Von Werra's aircraft was an E-4 but I can't remember the werknummer off the top of my head.

Don't forget that neither could carry a drop tank. The plumbing was only fitted as part of the E-7 standard.

Cheers

Steve

[spanner570]

Looking at Tony's picture of Von Werra's 109, and reading your posts Steve, there is no head armour fixed to the canopy, so unless it's been nicked and based on my nearly zilch knowledge of such matters (apart from jettisoned ones!) wouldn't that suggest his aircraft was an E-3?

Just a thought....

Ron

[stona]

Hi Ron,I can't find the werknummer on my computer but the aircraft clearly has the later canopy fitted. It could either be a retro-fitted E-3 or an E-4 with the armour removed. Several Luftwaffe pilots had it removed to improve rearward visibility.

Galland famously had his reinstalled when saved by the head armour whilst flying an alternate aircraft.

Cheers

Steve

Edit: W.Nr 1480 which would be an E-4.