JUNE 6th 1944....NEVER FORGET

[flyjoe180]

Thanks for posting your pictures Ron, they are very poignant.

It is important to remember.I saw this question posted on a modelling website elsewhere.

"I have heard of the Canadians, British and French also being in on the landings with the US were any other troops involved there? Australians, New Zealand, South African? The Polish and Czechs fought in the Battle of Britain did they have ground troops in on D Day as well?"

When you consider that the British and Canadians landing on D-Day outnumbered US troops by some margin the wording is a bit worrying!

I am not bashing our American friends or trying to diminish the significant role that those US troops played. I just think that it is important to remember.....accurately.

Cheers

Steve

Well said Steve. As for the New Zealanders, Poles and Czechs, they were largely busy fighting in Italy, the 'forgotten front'. The Australians had mostly recalled most of their forces to the Pacific by this stage of the war.

This may be of interest to you all. Some time ago I visited a small museum and found this diagram drawn by Johnnie Houlton, a New Zealand pilot with 485 (NZ) Squadron RAF. He drew it to explain his D-Day kills. He shot down a Ju88, the first aerial kill of the landings. He also shared in the second kill of the day. This was achieved in Spitfire MK950 (OU-X), not his usual aircraft which according to the 485 Squadron ORB had suffered a problem with the propeller. However many accounts show he was flying his usual aircraft, ML407 (OU-V).

The diagram he drew:

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[Guest]

Just add to my piece.

The two cemeteries USA & British.

The USA is right in character. at least from my point of view, large swaithes of the headstones in a large landscape. Some statement of the USA, some sight & very very impressive.

The British & Commonwealth. The cemetery on side of the road with the memorial overlooking from the otherside of the road. The cemetery heart breaking set out with the feel of an English country garden. So beautiful & so heartbreaking. I have never before or since been moved as much as I was that day.

Laurie

[Guest]

Thanks Ron.Alas, such memorials can be found throughout history and all over the world. I think the only thing that history shows us is that we don't learn from it.

Gern

Politicians certainly don't

[Guest]

and after all this slaughter they still don't teach the folly of war in schools. most of the kids round here don't know what significance that this date holds, it disturbs me that these people are our future.Scott

Doesn't worry me one bit, sadly they'll probably have their own wars to remember

[spanner570]

All good and fair comments....

Laurie, we went to the cemeteries in Bayeux, I found it very sad the way the main road cuts through the British Cemetery......

What my wife and I didn't realise was the number of allied countries involved in Operation Overlord. Almost every country overrun by the Nazis were present in one form or another on 6th June 1944....The French Resistance played their part too.

We wanted to get away from the touristy side of D. Day, (Good thought they were) and probe a mile or so inland and what we found very moving were the small plaques in villages thanking the allies - be they British, American, whatever for freeing them.....The still blood stained seating in the tiny church at Angoville Au Plain, used by the 101st Airborne as a hospital..."All are welcome, but leave your weapons outside!" 80 soldiers of both sides and one child were treated by two American medics. Finding these sort of things really brought it home to my wife and I...

Having just visited the area one thing is for sure, it doesn't matter a stuff to me how many, of which nationality were present.....Everyone of those scared young men, whether landing on the beaches, hanging from a parachute or sitting in a plywood and fabric glider deserves our eternal thanks.......

[Guest]

Having just visited the area one thing is for sure, it doesn't matter a stuff to me how many, of which nationality were present.....Everyone of those scared young men, whether landing on the beaches, hanging from a parachute or sitting in a plywood and fabric glider deserves our eternal thanks.......

Absolutely, 100%

[Guest]

What a great and timely posting Ron thanks for sharing and the added History from all is very appreciated as well. cheers Trey

[Guest]

Thanks for the images Ron. Some very moving and impressive camera work.

I don't do politics and propaganda and really don't like commenting on it to be honest, but as you asked .......

Will the human race ever learn from history?

As countries are still sending innocent young men and women to far distant lands to shoot at people they don't know because of some political / religious / governmental dispute ....... Then I'd say the answer to your question is no unfortunately!

[stona]

Re the British/Canadians et alter in Normandy.

I'm reminded of an incident at the headquarters of 7th Armoured Division in Normandy.

A Red Army liaison officer, Colonel Vassilievsky, expressed the view that the British advance was very slow. A British officer asked him to show, on a map, the area where his own Soviet Division was fighting in the east. It transpired that there were nine German Divisions on his sector which was over 600 miles long.

The British pointed out that they were facing ten Divisions, including six Panzer Divisions, on a front of only sixty two miles.

The Soviets maintained that Germany's best troops were on the Eastern Front whereas in fact six SS armoured Divisions, as well as Panzer Lehr and 2nd Panzer Divisions were in Normandy and most were opposite the British/Canadians.

Some hard facts that might provide food for though for the Montgomery and Anglo/Canadian bashers.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Yes that is a fact Steve & has taken a long time to filter down the truth.

All the men in the invasion, all the Allies what ever nationality, relied on Montgomery. Thank goodness he was there & the responsibility on his shoulders was greater than any on this day all that time ago. What he did was incredible. He was also mindful and very responsible about his soldiers.

Laurie

[yak face]

Thanks for the pics ron, a very timely reminder . My thanks go to every one of those brave souls who fought for us, cheers tony

[Guest]

I have a puzzle about the Landings. A huge invasion effort was assembled on the South coast of England over a long time. Huge numbers of troops, all in uniform, milling around; new barracks to house them; armoured vehicles, tanks, landing craft, Mulberry stuff — hardly inconspicuous, PLUTO (oil pipeline). I believe that the Germans knew that an invasion was planned, but how come (as I understand it) the first they knew of it was when the invasion was half way across the Channel?!

Arguments that I have heard explaining this include no photo reconnaissance because the Luftwaffe did not have air superiority and no satellites; German spies were caught soon after landing and therefore were unable to warn; communications were cruder in those days, only gossip but no Internet helping leaks; The UK had a a friendly population which was unlikely to blab; skilful camouflage distraction hiding the activity; the Germans had the whole of the South Coast to watch.

Still, I am still surprised that they had no inkling of such a vast preparatory operation lasting for a long time. Any ideas?

[Guest]

Steve the Germans knew the invasion was coming what they did not know was when & where.

All air recon. by the RAF was carried out generally through out the coastal areas of France to ensure the Normandy landing areas were not obvious as the landing areas. Full size mock tanks & vehicles were placed in East Anglia to fool the German High Command.

Hitler was convinced that the landing would be in the Callais area. Patton was also in East Anglia & "advertised" as such & was thought to be a spear head commander for the landings. He was not but the Germans thought he was.

The weather was so bad at the time of the landings the German High Command in Normandy were convinced that no landing would take place at that time. Large numbers of top German commanders were away taking advantage of what they thought was a period where landings could not take place due to the weather conditions.

On the Pluto & Mulberry I suspect that the Germans had not a clue as to what it was all about. Their intelligence services were very poor. British intelligence also had caught German Spies & persuaded them (the alternative hanging) to act for Britain & were sending spoof messages to the German Intelligence.

As you have said Steve the Luftwaffe was thin on the ground. RAF bomber command & the USAF were near at their zenith at this time in bombing Germany. The Luftwaffe had a great deal of their efforts put into Day & Night Fighters over Germany to combat the bombers. Consequently they had few squadrons to match the RAF who drove them away to deter intelligence gathering.

Prof. Jones had also had located all the German Radar sites along the fFench Coastline & the RAF set about & destroyed most. An important set of eyes was denied to the Germans. To combat any Radar still working on DDay the RAF flew backwards & forwards across for East Anglia dropping window in sush a way to simulate an invasion fleet heading in the Calais area.

Actually Steve the Germans only knew about the landings when their patrols looked out to sea on that morning & saw the Armada. I have read that even then the German High Command in Rennes would not believe it.

Worth reading about the planning as it was just an incredible unertaking. I would guess the largest undertaking the world has ever seen.

Laurie

[Guest]

Prof. Jones had also had located all the German Radar sites along the fFench Coastline & the RAF set about & destroyed most. An important set of eyes was denied to the Germans. To combat any Radar still working on DDay the RAF flew backwards & forwards across for East Anglia dropping window in sush a way to simulate an invasion fleet heading in the Calais area.

..........

Worth reading about the planning as it was just an incredible unertaking. I would guess the largest undertaking the world has ever seen.

Laurie

Prof. R V Jones was my Prof of Physics at Aberdeen Uni 1st year (1951-52). He was the most inspiring teacher I ever had and he mentioned his radar work a few times and his contact with Churchill. He gave one of the Christmas Lectures (created by the BBC) and was on form. He died a few years ago. One of the greatest contributors to our success in WWII. His book mentions that the reason why Coventry got bombed was that the interference of German direction finding he had designed did not work that night for some reason.

Can you please recommend some references to descriptions of the preparations for D-Day? Thanks.

[Guest]

That is a coincidence Steve. Most Secret War must have re-read it 5 times or more. Fantastic tale & happily he has that knack of writing in such a way to make science easy to understand & very interesting.

I like the way he argued with his mentor Prof Lindeman. His firmness on what the V1 & V2 could do all the other experts were way out Jones was as near spot on. Certainly did a lot for Britain during WW11 at a post which he stuck despite better positions in the science of things.

Books Steve. That is a big ask. Generally I have not read a book on the subject of the planning from first page to last. I have picked subjects as references to what I want to know with all info built over the years of reading. Books from the library which have illustrations with text explaining. Books about the invasion which have gone into incidental detail about the planning.

Not at home at present so a bit restricted. But Montgomery’s Normandy to the Baltic.

Decision in Normandy Carlo D’Este. An American view.

The Battle for Normandy. Max Hastings.

There are so many facets. Mini subs collecting sample material from the landing beaches. The attacks by the RAF on the Radar

RAF photo rec.over the landing beaches & rail systems. French resistance organising. All in books of their own.

It is a big subject Steve without a book with the whole lot layed out.

Laurie