Steve's 1/72 Boulton Paul Defiant

[dave]

From what I have read quite a few Bf109 pilots had a nasty shock mistaking them for Hurricanes and attacking from above and behind early in the BoB.

[stillp]

I've often wondered if the Defiant would have been more successful with a couple of forward-firing guns.
Pete

[rtfoe]

In those days a couple of added pounds created performance issues to the aircraft. The powerplants and design of aircraft were always at their limits so added guns and ammo perhaps were equated in and left out due to these deficiencies.

Cheers,
Richard

[stona]

They never seriously considered armament in the wing(s) of the Defiant. The turret could fire forwards with the weapons fired by the pilot, but obviously the propeller got in the way. The angle at which the guns could fire was not far off that required for 'no allowance' shooting, something that had been something of an obsession for the Air Staff in the '20s and '30s.

The proposed successor to the Defiant would have had a turret equipped with four 20mm cannon (F.18/36 and then F.11/37) and they would have been able to fire directly forward, but this aircraft would have been a two-engined machine. For some reason Dowding wanted this aircraft to have a single forward firing machine gun "as some means of engaging a single low flying aircraft". Why the turret armament couldn't do this was not discussed.

Later F.9/37 was issued to Gloster for another type of turret fighter. This would have been a twin with a nose mounted cannon set up for 'no allowance' shooting and a four gun midships turret. The turret was deleted from this specification before the prototype was completed.

The Air Ministry enjoyed something of a love affair with the two concepts illustrated in F.9/37, 'no allowance' shooting and turret fighters. Both were a reflection of the perceived need to bring adequate firepower from enough aircraft to bear simultaneously on enemy bomber formations. A 1938 Air Staff review of 'Air Defence Fighter Tactics' reasoned that fixed gun single seat fighters could only attack from astern (!), would not be able to surprise the enemy who would only need rear defensive armament. Only one or two fighters could attack simultaneously. On the other hand,

"The moveable gun fighter, by flying on a parallel course to the bomber, can attack it from any direction and so overcome all these disadvantages."

It also argued that in air superiority fighting, where the aim was the destruction of the enemy's fighters, a moveable gun fighter could act offensively as well as defensively. In early 1939 another specification for a turret fighter was drawn up. This never really got off the drawing board, but was initially to have a nose turret with four 20mm cannon. Later it was decided that "the upper turret of B.1/39 [a bomber specification] may be suitable for this aircraft", which definitely implies a midships turret.

The fixed gun fighter, particularly with the very heavy armament for the mid '30s of six or eight machine guns, was by no means the front runner in much of the Air Ministry planning. It's probably going too far to say that we were lucky to have them, but there was a distinct possibility that we might never have had enough of them.

[stona]

In other news, I've made a start on the Defiant, sticking together and painting the rather basic interior. I suppose that at this scale not much of this will be seen, even without a pilot, and what's there does give a decent impression of a Defiant cockpit.



I'd like to add that I don't mind diversions and chat about other aspects of the Defiant, turret fighters, Air Ministry policy etc. at all. It's all part of our history and one of the reasons I took up model making again after the customary long lay off for, well, life
It's all good fun, and if someone ineptly sticking a few bits of plastic together can stimulate an interesting discussion, so much the better.

[stona]

More progress!
This is a very nice little kit, similar to the Bf 109 I just did. It all fits very nicely indeed, I've not used anything but glue to do the sticking together bit... so far.

[papa 695]

Nice work so far Steve

[stona]

Not much time today as I am applying my skills, unpaid, to move and install a bunch of light fittings for the Fuhrerin rather than pleasing myself.

I have masked and primed the clear parts. In all honesty, there are things to do which are much more fun than this, even with your clothes on



I've gone for the cockpit part with the gun turret fairing down. The only way to do this is to mask the glass of the rear canopy and then spray the fairing (which slides down inside the canopy) from the inside. Hopefully, even at this scale, the result will look like a clear panel with a solid piece (the fairing) behind it. Obviously I'll have to spray the inside of the part representing the fairing before I stick it on the model, which will now not happen until tomorrow.

[stona]

I'm leaping ahead with this one!

I managed to prime the model last night, so I've got the Sky undersides sprayed today.

I post shade, which I find more controllable. Using enamels I can also do it 'wet on wet'. If you over do it it is a simple task to do an overspray of the base colour to tone it down, which makes it an idiot proof technique, ideal for me.

It never shows up well in photographs, particularly mine, it's supposed to be subtle, but here is the underside anyway.



Varnishes also affect the final result, guessing how is all part of the fun! They always darken the way the paint appears, and this is a very small model.

BTW, I discovered that the round hatch on the underside, behind the radiator was how the armourers accessed the lower turret to install the ammunition boxes for the guns. Rather them than me!

[rtfoe]

Hi Steve,
I'm looking at this with envy and wished I hadn't started on the old kit and waited a bit more. Looks good even minus the detailing. So far how is the fit?

The addition of history and references to your thread make it even more interesting. I've learned more and appreciate the aircraft a bit more.

Cheers,
Richard

[stona]

Richard, the fit has been perfect so far, I have just stuck the bits together.

Apart from the undercarriage all that's left are the various antennae, pitot, propeller etc., so they will fit. I've already put together the turret and that was fine too. The turret seems to 'snap' into the fuselage, but I'll do that at the end and do it once. It doesn't look like something you can take in and out a few times!

[rtfoe]

Fantastic Steve, I'm hoping the build will be similar and applied to the 1/48 kit especially the snap fitting of the turret. Will have to wait and see Barry's build.

Cheers,
Richard

[stona]

I've got the camouflage on. It's close enough for me. There are definitely diminishing returns to mucking about with it at this stage, meaning adjustments often make it worse rather than better!

[colin m]

Look at you slipping an extra one in... well why not.
It has been interesting reading all the comments and views about the Defiant (the real aircraft) in your build thread. I can't help thinking, with a bit of development, it might have been something. Just the box art shows the guns engaging a 109 on the port quarter, high. Only a turret could have done this.

[stona]

Decals on. There's only about 10 of them, though I did cut out the fuselage roundels and codes to reduce the amount of carrier film.



They are not the best to be honest, let's just say that you would struggle to break them. They will be assaulted several times with Microsol to beat them into shape before the next stages.

I'm reasonably optimistic that I will complete this model by Thursday (the end of the BoB) but if I don't, I don't :smiling3: