Kit complexity?

[GerryW]

So is there any sort of 'league table' of kit complexity, any 'beginner' to 'years of experience needed' sort of thing - looking around the forum, you can see that no matter the kit, people can and do add their own 'take'.
My thought was sort of along the lines of Airfix - suitable for the beginner, but what would 'follow' and in what order - Tamiya, Italieri, ICM, Zvesda, Minibox?

[Bugatti Fan]

Some manufacturers 'grade' their kits on the box, but not all.

[dave]

In my experience it varies a bit from kit to kit within a manufacturer in some cases, at least for aircraft
For Airfix their new kits are generally straightforwards and a reasonable fit, the same cannot be said of re-releases on some of their older kits.
ICM again the new kits are very good, the older kits less so.
Tamiya tend to be reliable in terms of a good build.

I would say do a bit of research, think what would you like to build, possible kits and then ask on here what people think of those specific kits

[wasdale32]

The issue is that there is no objective measure of "complexity".

In many cases part count seems to be used as an measure of "skill level" but that isn't always a true indication:

For example a tank from Meng or Rye Field Models (RFM) might have a very high parts count due to the individual track links ( as many as 900+ in some examples) but the rest of the model may be quite straightforward.

Conversely a model with a relatively low parts count may require a lot of expertise/experience* to achieve a good result due to problems with fit, poorly designed moulds or even just rubbish instructions.

Scale is also a factor - larger scales may be "more detailed" with higher parts count but can be easier to assemble than smaller scales.

In general the more "mixed-media" (plastic/resin/photo-etch etc) included in a kit the more "complex" the build will be as these require differing skill sets.

Mark

*remember that "experience" and "expertise" aren't always the same thing - someone who produces a model a week has lots of "experience" but they may not have a lot of "expertise"

[Dave Ward]

Grading kits is very subjective - Revell grade theirs by part count - as good a way as any. A high parts count doesn't mean that a model is any better it's just more complex! Think of a tank, each track has say 100 links per side, if each link has 3 parts ( not unknown ), then there's 600 parts to start with. I'm afraid it's up to the individual modeller - some love the simplicity of a Tamiya model, others crave the maximum number of parts.
The tendency is for a higher parts count - even 1/72 tanks can reach 200 parts! All you can do is read & watch reviews - follow blogs, and make your own mind up. One person can find a model easy - another difficult!
Mark is correct in the difference between 'experience' & 'expertise'
One of the most damning comments I heard on a long serving coworker was ' he had one year's experience, that he repeated 25 times!!'
Dave

[GerryW]

Thanks for the 'outlooks' - I'm thinking that I could have probably worded the initial 'question' differently and less open to comparing say a 'Airfix' 1/72 Tiger 1 with a 'Tamiya' 1/16th scale kit of the same Tiger 1. After all, I've made kits on and off since the late 1960s (with 'lay-offs' for other of life happenings) and wouldn't compare a 'Airfix' Arial Arrow/Leader kit to a Protar Jawa Speedway kit (both of which I have done in the past) except to say that neither of the kits would be one that I'd recommend to a 'novice', despite that the Ariel kit had far fewer parts!

The thought I had - is there any manufacturer that springs to mind that offer 'advanced/complicated' as 'normal', rather than 'as well as' 'basic/simple'?

The scenario - I'm 99% finished on a Tamiya BMW outfit and looking round at the next 'box' to fill the gap that I've made in the shelf, possibly a Zvesda/IBG/Italeri version of similar (yes I like my motorbikes!) or maybe something bigger - possibly a truck, but don't want to get into the kit, just to get frustrated/fed up of doing it (got 'burned' once - Airfix 1/8 Norton Commando, still sat in it's 'making box' after 20+ years!) so having read of a similar saga of a truck which required the chassis to be assembled almost as though you were building the real thing - at the moment, would like not to dive into those sort of depths (at this stage) on this trip into the hobby!

[GerryW]

Mark is correct in the difference between 'experience' & 'expertise'
One of the most damning comments I heard on a long serving coworker was ' he had one year's experience, that he repeated 25 times!!'
Dave

Yes - I've come across the saying before - usually after they've had something out of the ordinary come up & fouled it right up! :smiling:

[Dave Ward]

Gerry,
I can recommend the Zvezda BMW & Sidecar - even though mine met a premature end, after dropping it! A load of trucks require you to assemble the chassis, and generally the chassis is over half the construction! How about a nice little staff car? The Tamiya Simca 5 is a little beauty, or the ICM Kadett Cabriolet, neither of which are particularly complicated. If you want something bigger, a Tamiya Krupp Protze builds very well.............
Dave

[GerryW]

Tempted with both the Zvezda BMW and the Protze - though did see a IBG BMW outfit on eBay, was tempted, afterall, how hard can a 1/35 m/c be???

[Guest]

The thought I had - is there any manufacturer that springs to mind that offer 'advanced/complicated' as 'normal', rather than 'as well as' 'basic/simple'?

If I read your question right, you’re asking for manufacturers that offer simple kits that are still quite good? Generally speaking, this means you will end up with Tamiya, as there is very little that can beat them in terms of fit and ease of assembly. However, if you also want good detail, then don’t buy any of their kits that is more than about 30 years old (or based on a kit of that age), because the older Tamiya kits were all designed to look reasonably like the real thing, but not with real attempts at accurate details — or even shapes — in mind.

[GerryW]

If I read your question right, you’re asking for manufacturers that offer simple kits that are still quite good? Generally speaking, this means you will end up with Tamiya, as there is very little that can beat them in terms of fit and ease of assembly. However, if you also want good detail, then don’t buy any of their kits that is more than about 30 years old (or based on a kit of that age), because the older Tamiya kits were all designed to look reasonably like the real thing, but not with real attempts at accurate details — or even shapes — in mind.

Sort of, just didn't want to get a kit that 'dropped me in it' and (at the moment) have a really complicated assembly string - not sure if I'm up to it just yet!!

[Dave Ward]

Tempted with both the Zvezda BMW and the Protze - though did see a IBG BMW outfit on eBay, was tempted, afterall, how hard can a 1/35 m/c be???

Gerry,
you can answer that question, by downloading the instructions - both the IBG BMW & the Zvezda R-12 sidecar variants are on Scalemates - I always like to do this if possible - it give you an idea of what to expect!
Dave

[GerryW]

........................... the older Tamiya kits were all designed to look reasonably like the real thing, but not with real attempts at accurate details — or even shapes — in mind.

Having just done some more of the 'equipment' - can see this quite well - I've some from a 'later' kit (think it's from a Hanomag 251 kit) and comparing them to the items that came with the BMW outfit, there's no contest that the 'hanomag' ones are far better 'detail'

[GerryW]

Gerry,
you can answer that question, by downloading the instructions - both the IBG BMW & the Zvezda R-12 sidecar variants are on Scalemates - I always like to do this if possible - it give you an idea of what to expect!
Dave

I'll give that a go, thanks!
Edit just signed up, and had a look - wheee! Not sure.

[Dave Ward]

I'll give that a go, thanks!
Edit just signed up, and had a look - wheee! Not sure.

Smaller doesn't necessarily mean simpler! I see the Protze instructions are also on Scalemates...............
Dave