boatman's 1/72 HMS Tiger C20 build

[Waspie]

Chris, question for you.
Can you run Port and Stbd motors independently. IE, run port motors at a faster rate than the other and vice versa?
If yes, then like the big - big boys, could you use them as well as the rudder to tighten up the turning arc?

[Guest]

Chris .
There's no doubt that you deserve
and full size this time .
Great build, great to follow . Sorry about the motors , have every confidence you will over come this , as you normally do .


Matron and the Committee had a great day out , and thoroughly enjoyed themselves .Matron said she has always had a soft spot for a sailor , looks like your luck's in !

[Mini Me]

There you go Chris!! Looks like you've earned yerself a "promise" there, from Matron. If you play yer cards right, I'm told she can be very obliging!!

[Ian M]

Well Chris. She looks wonderful on the water. Sits well. As her first 'shake-down' I guess a problem here and there are to be expected.
Pity about the fuse problem. I must say that bowing a 40amp fuse is a bit extreme though. That is a huge power draw. More than most household appliances!
You'll get it sorted.

[Tim Marlow]

Well Chris. She looks wonderful on the water. Sits well. As her first 'shake-down' I guess a problem here and there are to be expected.
Pity about the fuse problem. I must say that bowing a 40amp fuse is a bit extreme though. That is a huge power draw. More than most household appliances!
You'll get it sorted.

Not really Ian. A Watt is the measure of energy transfer over a unit of time. Remember the old electrical equation …..

Watts = Volts x Amps

For the same amount of energy transferred (Watts), Amperage (the rate at which electron flow is running through a system) goes up as voltage (the pressure allowing electrons to flow) goes down. The fuses’ job is to limit that rate because electron flow causes heat, and too much heat (electron flow) will damage the cabling.

For example, a 60 W bulb on a 240 V (UK) circuit needs to be protected by a 0.25 A fuse. The same bulb, on a 12 V circuit, needs 5 A fuse protection.

In Chris’ 12 V application a 40 A fuse is the equivalent of having a 2 A fuse on a household 240 V circuit. If a 40 A fuse was fitted into a UK residential 240 V electrical system, and the wiring was rated high enough, it could drive approximately a 10,000 W power application.

It’s a bit like an airbrush system. If you think of the wattage as the amount of paint moved, voltage as the compressor pressure, and the airbrush needle as the fuse in amps, lower pressure (volts) needs a bigger needle (amps) to move the same amount of paint (watts).

Well that woke me up LOL…..fifty year old physics knowledge coming creaking into daylight….

[boatman]

Chris, question for you.
Can you run Port and Stbd motors independently. IE, run port motors at a faster rate than the other and vice versa?
If yes, then like the big - big boys, could you use them as well as the rudder to tighten up the turning arc?

HI Doug no i dont want to do that as yes the full size ships can get away with powerin one side engines more than the other to help the turn circle an i had this prob on my nimitz so a mate said fit in a mixer unit so as the ship turns the mixer unit will slow down one set of motors an speed up the other side motors automaticaly
but in a model this heavy like my nimtz aircraft carrier the mixer dint do any good im afraid an a big waste of money an i cant work 2 sets of throttles on my T/X as i have not got good cordanation in my hands as gettin old so thats that out
but very good idea all the same many thanks Doug ps an as the ESC's x2 are BECC ( batt elelinmination circut ) i have to take out one red power wire or the ESC's will fight each other to the death but hang on as they are on a seperate eletric circut from the R/X then they may not do that an it may work but then it will be back to me tryin to work them oh dear but i will have a try an i think i will go back to the mixer idea an it may work on this ship SO Doug very good idea but then i will have to move the guns to another postion in the R/X see this is the trouble alter one thing then there is a knock on affect Aaaacchhh but will have a good think on it as no a 50ft turning circle is no good to me
chreers
chrisb

[boatman]

Chris .
There's no doubt that you deserve
[ATTACH]483911[/ATTACH]and full size this time .
Great build, great to follow . Sorry about the motors , have every confidence you will over come this , as you normally do .


Matron and the Committee had a great day out , and thoroughly enjoyed themselves .Matron said she has always had a soft spot for a sailor , looks like your luck's in !

HI John yes i see an heard Matron as her big new hat with the sailing ship on the top nearly took my eye out lol an as about 20 odd people were around the ship on the table she kept sayin well i think it needs an injection with bloomin great surrineges an needles Aaaaaaccchhh as she i think injected a poor member of the public as i see a guy limpin away hold in his bottom oh poor bugger lol an many thanks for the full size DOGS as yes i certainly eanrnt them on the day what with tryin to find out the probs ps an me lucks in with Matron URGH NO THANKS if it was that young model lady then great i would have took her on lol
ATB sir
chrisb

[boatman]

There you go Chris!! Looks like you've earned yerself a "promise" there, from Matron. If you play yer cards right, I'm told she can be very obliging!!

URGH no thanks Rick i think i'll pass on Matron lol :rolling: :tongue-out3::thumb2:

Well Chris. She looks wonderful on the water. Sits well. As her first 'shake-down' I guess a problem here and there are to be expected.
Pity about the fuse problem. I must say that bowing a 40amp fuse is a bit extreme though. That is a huge power draw. More than most household appliances!
You'll get it sorted.

AN HI Ian thank you for your nice comments an yes near every ship real or model has some glitches to sort out when on the water for the first time an i have certaintly got them so now its all trail an error but regards motors jen came up with a good idea she said wait untill WINGS an WHEELS SHOW at the end of this month an i should be able to get some new motors up there x 4 an the good thing about that is i will be able to hold them in my hand an to mearsure the size of motor an voltage an shaft size so that they will line up with my prop shafts an yes there is a huge current draw as this ship is very heavy an just as well plenty of people up pond to help me lift her in an out of the water
cheers
chrisb

Not really Ian. A Watt is the measure of energy transfer over a unit of time. Remember the old electrical equation …..

Watts = Volts x Amps

For the same amount of energy transferred (Watts), Amperage (the rate at which electron flow is running through a system) goes up as voltage (the pressure allowing electrons to flow) goes down. The fuses’ job is to limit that rate because electron flow causes heat, and too much heat (electron flow) will damage the cabling.

For example, a 60 W bulb on a 240 V (UK) circuit needs to be protected by a 0.25 A fuse. The same bulb, on a 12 V circuit, needs 5 A fuse protection.

In Chris’ 12 V application a 40 A fuse is the equivalent of having a 2 A fuse on a household 240 V circuit. If a 40 A fuse was fitted into a UK residential 240 V electrical system, and the wiring was rated high enough, it could drive approximately a 10,000 W power application.

It’s a bit like an airbrush system. If you think of the wattage as the amount of paint moved, voltage as the compressor pressure, and the airbrush needle as the fuse in amps, lower pressure (volts) needs a bigger needle (amps) to move the same amount of paint (watts).

Well that woke me up LOL…..fifty year old physics knowledge coming creaking into daylight….

WOW Tim you lost me on the first sentance lol but if what you are sayin is right no wonder ive go power an fuse probs an ive sent off for some 50 amp fuses an i may go the whole hog an order against my better judgement some 100amp fuses as this maybe dangerous but i can just try it as its just goin to be finding what amperage fuses will do the job an if not then any amperage in between Aaaaaccchhhhhhhh but with new motors fitted in i may not need all these high amperge fuses as in norfolk she sails well on 30amp fuses so in my opinion it them old motors that are faulty an are drawin far more power than needed but its all goin to be try it an see job
cheers Tim
chrisb

chrisb

[Tim Marlow]

WOW Tim you lost me on the first sentance lol but if what you are sayin is right no wonder ive go power an fuse probs an ive sent off for some 50 amp fuses an i may go the whole hog an order against my better judgement some 100amp fuses as this maybe dangerous but i can just try it as its just goin to be finding what amperage fuses will do the job an if not then any amperage in between Aaaaaccchhhhhhhh but with new motors fitted in i may not need all these high amperge fuses as in norfolk she sails well on 30amp fuses so in my opinion it them old motors that are faulty an are drawin far more power than needed but its all goin to be try it an see job
cheers Tim
chrisb

chrisb

I think you are kinda going at it the wrong way there Chris……..if you just up the fuse you are potentially going to melt the cabling and damage other things on the circuit. The fuse is there to protect the cabling and stop items being given too much electricity.

Give me the numbers and I’ll do the maths for you if you want……

What voltage is the system?
What wattage are the motors?

As W = V x A then A = W / V. To get the required fuse amperage just divide the motor wattage by the system Voltage, and there you go……

If the motor won’t run on the fuse amperage that this gives then there is something wrong with the motor.

[Waspie]

I think you are kinda going at it the wrong way there Chris……..if you just up the fuse you are potentially going to melt the cabling and damage other things on the circuit. The fuse is there to protect the cabling and stop items being given too much electricity.

Give me the numbers and I’ll do the maths for you if you want……

What voltage is the system?
What wattage are the motors?

As W = V x A then A = W / V. To get the required fuse amperage just divide the motor wattage by the system Voltage, and there you go……

If the motor won’t run on the fuse amperage that this gives then there is something wrong with the motor.

Don’t ya just love it when greenies talk dirty!!!

[Airborne01]

Well Chris. She looks wonderful on the water. Sits well. As her first 'shake-down' I guess a problem here and there are to be expected.
Pity about the fuse problem. I must say that bowing a 40amp fuse is a bit extreme though. That is a huge power draw. More than most household appliances!
You'll get it sorted.

Wow, for a moment I thought you were praising Matron in a 'bathing costume' Chris ... (and Congrats on the DB - very well deserved!)

[stillp]

I think you are kinda going at it the wrong way there Chris……..if you just up the fuse you are potentially going to melt the cabling and damage other things on the circuit. The fuse is there to protect the cabling and stop items being given too much electricity.

Give me the numbers and I’ll do the maths for you if you want……

What voltage is the system?
What wattage are the motors?

As W = V x A then A = W / V. To get the required fuse amperage just divide the motor wattage by the system Voltage, and there you go……

If the motor won’t run on the fuse amperage that this gives then there is something wrong with the motor.

Have you seen the stall current of those motors Tim? 85A I think!
Pete

[stillp]

Chris, what actually drives the motors? Is it the ESCs? I'm surprised they don't have current limiting built in.
Pete

[boatman]

CHEERS Pete ive just sent a email off to the bottom chap as its a new one asking how much p& p many thanks Pete for finding these up youre a pal
ATB
CHRISB

HI Pete well got an answer the motor is sold but cheers for lookin for me
chrisb

[Ian M]

Not really Ian. A Watt is the measure of energy transfer over a unit of time. Remember the old electrical equation …..

Watts = Volts x Amps

Remember it quite well. I used to be an installation electrician. But that was a lifetime ago. And there is a whole lot of difference between Electrician and Electronics Engineer. lol
But OK 40A sounds a lot but I guess over the 4 motors that is only 10A a piece... Maybe an single inline per motor could point to one defect motor and save Chris a few bobs.
But as you wrote we need the power table for the motors or just which motors they are would help. 261 pages is a lot to wade through to find the info...

there is a huge current draw as this ship is very heavy

What does Tiger weigh in at sailing weight Chris? Which motors do you have? Who big are the props? Big props need low speed and high torque.