Brush vs airbrush?

[Guest]

Hi Murfie.
Just for info, I can remove the needle from the back of my Iwatta for cleaning in about two seconds…..and can remove the caps, nozzle, and paint cup in about another ten. This leaves the paint path and components completely clear for cleaning. I’m not sure if all Iwatta are like that and never had a H&S, but I think it would be difficult to find a brush that is easier to clean.

Hi Tim,

There are many AB users that support your view. At one time I did own one of both brands but ended up keeping my preference, which to me was a lay-down misere, but that doesn't mean anyone will agree with me. Your comments are just as valid as mine. You are happy to take a needle out from the back which to me is a big no-no. Purely subjective - no right or wrong there. As I said, most of an AB's features are very subjective and are down to your personal needs. I never recommend my preferences to anyone else because we are all different. I just try to relate the logic behind my own personal choices.

[Jim R]

I have Iwata and H&S airbrushes. Much prefer the Iwata and like Tim I find it really simple to clean. I put everything through them, acrylics, enamels, lacquers and very rarely have problems. I do use a solvent cleaner after every session, THIS STUFF, just squirt some into the cup, blow through and most of the time that's it. I occasionally remove, clean and lube the needle.
Jim

[dalej2014]

Thanks all. I will almost certainly invest in an AB and compressor w/ tank at some point. I'll start with a cheap AB, but I'm already looking at the H&S Ultra v2 and two-in-one (although I've no idea what the difference is yet).
I have looked at several good videos on YT about AB technique, cleaning and so on. The Andy's hobbies ones are short, and it seems a reasonably easy process. A related question - I've seen windscreen fluid mentioned for cleaning; does anyone have any experience with that? It has to be cheaper than solvents, although I can see those being needed if the paint has dried or gummed up.

Edit - it appears the two in one has both 0.2mm and 0.4mm nozzles. That clears that up! Better value for money by the look of it.

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Dale
As you can see. We’ve got our own preferences…..so stick with the starter brush until you’ve decided air brushing is for you. By then you’ll know what you want from a brush and will be able to make an informed decision.

[Guest]

Hi Tim,

There are many AB users that support your view. At one time I did own one of both brands but ended up keeping my preference, which to me was a lay-down misere, but that doesn't mean anyone will agree with me. Your comments are just as valid as mine. You are happy to take a needle out from the back which to me is a big no-no. Purely subjective - no right or wrong there. As I said, most of an AB's features are very subjective and are down to your personal needs. I never recommend my preferences to anyone else because we are all different. I just try to relate the logic behind my own personal choices.

Yes you are right Murfie. We all have our ways & if they work you cannot argue with that (except for some of the time :smiling2: :tongue-out.

However it is a good idea to hear all of those ideas which then gives pick & choose options.

Problem is we all think we are right. (not saying anything more {for the moment}

Laurie

[dalej2014]

Thanks everyone for your advice. It's kind of you all to comment. I'm also glad we can sometimes agree to disagree. Differences of opinion are great talking points, and I can learn from differing perspectives. They are all appreciated.

[Guest]

Actually Dale what ever you buy & then decide you do not like you can always sell with remarkably little loss.
So there is little fear in that respect.

As long as it is not made by Marquette all is OK.

Laurie

[BarryW]

You have a lot of good advice here, but here is my take on this.

Get the best equipment that you can afford or want to spend. If you just go cheap, for instance a 'Chinese knock off' or a compressor without a tank, you will just find that you will be wanting/needing to upgrade so it will cost you more.

My equipment recommendation would be to spend approx. £100 on an airbrush that is gravity fed, double action with a needle size of 0.3 to 0.4. Spend a little less on a compressor with a tank, which can be obtained for around £85 such as the AS186. If a cheap airbrush comes bundled with it either put it on eBay or just use it for priming. The tank will help keep the spraying pressure more even and avoid pulsing as, as it means the motor does not run all the time, you don't have the continuous motor noise and there is less wear and tear.

I would recommend getting a spray mask. If you are just spraying water based acrylics then you really just need to protect yourself from particulates, but if spraying lacquers or enamels you will have fumes to worry about.

I would also suggest getting the following, but these are not necessary straight away, do so when you can afford it.

• An in-line water trap (the compressor should have on on it, if not get one of these immediately). I have two, one of the compressor and the other at the airbrush business end.
• A Fine-Pressure Control (fpc) attached to the airbrush. This enables you to get better control over the flow. I set my compressor pressure to a slightly higher level than I use it at and adjust it for spraying via the fpc. This way I can move easily from a very low pressure for fine lines up to blasting cleaner through the brush at the compressor setting.
• A spray-booth. These need not be expensive, or big. Some have carbon filters that don't have to be vented but these are only really OK if you are just spraying water based paint. If spraying anything else you need to vent it through an open window. I should add that one of these does not alleviate the need for a mask.

Now, as for paint....

There is a real learning curve as each paint has its own characteristics that you need to get used to and understand.

Water based acrylics are popular due to the lack of smell and one brand in particular, Vallejo Model Air, are specifically designed for the airbrush. They claim that these don't need thinning though some people disagree and do add some thinner (I do recommend their brand thinner, not water). I found that they spray OK unthinned, from the bottle at 20-25 psi, through an airbrush with a minimum 0.3 needle, unless you want to drop the pressure for fine lines in which case thinning is essential. A smaller needle size can be problematical and thinning is needed. You also need to place a drop of flow enhancer into the cup as 'tip-dry' can be a problem with water based paint. Some other tips:

• Wipe the model with i.p.a. to get rid of finger grease and 'rubble' before spraying.
• Prime. Water based paint has adhesion issues and a good primer will help with this. I would use Stynylrez, One Shot or Ultimate Primer. I understand that the last two are just branded versions of the former. I would not use Vallejo primer as that can be a problem. Primer will also help identify build flaws so you can sort them before laying down a base coat.
• Ensure that you wait at least 24 hours between coats. The water based paint needs to cure, not just dry. Curing times can vary and it is often affected by humidity. The best thing to do is put a model in an airing cupboard, if you can, to cure. Water based paints, if you do some search and read reviews, have a lot of detractors and while some people swear by them others hate them and have all sorts of trouble. The big factor affecting peoples experience with them relates to curing.

I used to use water based, mainly Vallejo, all the time and if you get a hang of their 'quirks' they can work well but they do provide a significant learning curve and add complexity to aibrush use.

However - After using them almost exclusively for 5 years I tried what was then a new brand of paint, MRP, then known as MR Paint (not to be confused with Mr Color). These are airbrush ready lacquer paints. I immediately gave away all my water based acrylics and bought over 100 bottles of MRP.

• Lacquer paints, generally, are the best type of paints for the airbrush that you can get. They have none of the vices of water based paints in that:
  • They dry within minutes and 'etch' into the plastic making them more durable than water based paint.
  • They are ready to mask over within 30 minutes, not 24 hours. Humidity has no impact on them at all.
  • They spray like silk and are very forgiving at a relatively low psi.
  • There are no 'tip-dry' issues to worry about.
  • They clean up very easily indeed with a lacquer thinner or i.p.a.

There are a few good lacquer brands and the two that 'stand-out' are Gunze Mr Colour and MRP. Be careful, both brands have water based acrylic versions as well so make sure you get the right ones. Both brands have a huge colour range incidentally. My choice of the two is MRP the pros and cons are as follows:

• MRP come in larger 30ml bottles and are 'airbrush ready'. I have not had to thin MRP once in 6 years of using them, not even for thin lines and mottle. Mr Color come in 10ml bottles (Vallejo being 17ml) incidentally to give some perspective and Mr Colour need thinning.
• The pigment is so small that it more resembles ink so you can use even smaller needle sizes without issues.
• The paint is so thin detail really stands out, even irregularities in the plastic, such as the 'flow' of the plastic as it was injected into the mould. This is not the case with all kits and depends of the type of plastic used. This is not a problem as this disappears under varnish and other coats but it illustrates how thin the paint is, which, on balance is a good thing overall.
• I spray at a low pressure of 10-12psi, lower for fine lines. It is, however, very forgiving if you make a mistake.
• They have a huge colour range and have never had to mix paint.

The qualities of MRP means that they are an easy paint to use and, as such, ideal for learners but they do have downsides:

• At approx. £5/bottle they seem to be more expensive than most. However they are in larger bottles and, in my experience, spraying at a low psi results in a better coverage. As always cost does not always relate to value and we all get what we pay for.
• They smell. You do ideally need a venting spray booth or, at least a very tolerant family in a very well ventilated space.
• You cannot hand-brush them. I do touch ups with an airbrush using localised masking. You can 'dab' a little lacquer paint in spots over lacquer but brushing it reactivates the underlying paint making a mess. To hand-brush detail over the sprayed lacquer base I use water based paint such as Vallejo Model Colour. The two work well together.

My advice for the best combination of materials:
Airbrush with lacquers
Hand brush with water based acrylics
Weather with enamels

I hope that helps

An airbrush will raise your modelling to another level. My advice is to use the airbrush by default, hand brush only detail where masking is not possible or realistic.

Whatever you do, practise but I do believe that you understand that.

Oh, cleaning.
I do a clean between colours by wiping the inside of the cup then I spray a cup of i.p.a., then a drop of lacquer thinner to finish off. I.p.a. via Amazon, in bulk, is a lot cheaper than thinner so I use that mostly. At the end of a session I do the above but I also do a 'blowback' of the thinner by pinching the needle end to obstruct flow (with great care) and then a final i.p.a. cup. Once a week or so I do a strip clean and again, more thoroughly, at the end of a project.

[dalej2014]

...

Oh, cleaning.
I do a clean between colours by wiping the inside of the cup then I spray a cup of i.p.a., then a drop of lacquer thinner to finish off. I.p.a. via Amazon, in bulk, is a lot cheaper than thinner so I use that mostly. At the end of a session I do the above but I also do a 'blowback' of the thinner by pinching the needle end to obstruct flow (with great care) and then a final i.p.a. cup. Once a week or so I do a strip clean and again, more thoroughly, at the end of a project.

Thanks very much Barry! Lots of information there to digest and process. I'll have a proper read through again later, and bear all of that in mind. I wasn't planning to outlay quite so much just yet, but I can always build up to over time. Your advice is very much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time.

[Guest]

I would recommend getting a spray mask. If you are just spraying water based acrylics then you really just need to protect yourself from particulates, but if spraying lacquers or enamels you will have fumes to worry about.

I'll second this advice. I only use water based acrylics and on changing the filters on my 3M respirator I certainly wouldn't like what's on the filters to be in my lungs.

[Tim Marlow]

Absolutely right! A good quality mask is an essential in my opinion as well.

[stona]

I don't believe it is a case of airbrush v brush.

I have seen some outstanding results from people using only hairy sticks; just take a look at some of the stuff produced by 'Spanner570' (Ron). However, there are some things that are best and most easily achieved with an airbrush. For most mere mortals Barry is correct when he says that an airbrush will raise your modelling to another level.

You've already got a ton of very good advice. I expect you'll be doing a bit of experimentation soon to find out what works best for you! I am rather old school and still use enamel paints which are not for everyone. I did enjoy a flirtation with various acrylics but you know the old saying about old dogs and new tricks.

The MRP lacquers mentioned by Barry are something I've also had a go with and found extremely easy to use. You can use them straight out of the bottle, meaning you don't have to worry about the knotty problem of thinning and they don't have any of the clogging/early drying issues of some acrylic systems (I found Xtracrylix almost unusable for example). I'd say as a start they'd be a good choice, you can always move on later if you want to.

[Guest]

I wasn't planning to outlay quite so much just yet, but I can always build up to over time. Your advice is very much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time.

Have a look on Ebay Dale. Some reasonable bargains. Gives a start & if you like & upgrade you will get, by putting back on Ebay, most of your money back.

If you buy second hand just get the seller to confirm that the needle & nozzle are in first class condition. If not you can return & claim your money back.

Laurie

[spanner570]

Dale, don't be in too much of a hurry to purchase an A.B.

A paint brush can produce just as good a result as any A.B.....Fact!

...and as a bonus, no faffing about.

[Guest]

A paint brush can produce just as good a result as any A.B.....Fact!

Ron. Mmmmmmmm.

1*48 Dart Herald. One coat all over, thin as they come, gets into all corners, one coat about 4 minutes.
Smooth as most babies bottoms.

Dry in less than 30 mins.

Clean airbrush 2 minutes.

Laurie

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