discussion first aircraft paint

[Guest]

Hi,
I have bought a revell tornado GR1 kit and have got to the stage of painting.

I have only done a few models and am still learning the basics. I bought this kit to experiment on and practice.

I have already learnt not to follow the instructions completely! In hindsight I would much rather have fitted some of the pieces, painted the aircraft as a whole and then detailed paint them. Anywho, I am trying various techniques i.e. masking tape/no masking tape, thinned paint/straight paint, the list goes on.
I dont have an airbrush kit and lack some bits and pieces, there is now way this model will turn out perfect, but I dont mind, every kit is a learning curve.
I know that I am using the wrong colours, not fitting all the pieces etc.

So, to paint the main aircraft, I am using revell enamel paint, thinned down with white spirit 50:50
the first layer went on like this...View attachment 283310
not too bad, but I was using this brush
View attachment 283311
So I went out and got a better one
The next layer went on,
View attachment 283312
Getting there
and the third layer...
View attachment 283313

Now i'm not impressed. Loads of brush lines, there must be a a way to get rid of them or am i doing something completely wrong? Apart from using white spirit? (it is a thinner after all)
I am brushing a bit haphazardly, trying to get in all the places, but I thought enamel paints evened themselves out?

Also, roughly how many coats is 'the norm'? I know it all depends, but can anyone give a rough estimate?

 

[colin m]

I think you are over thinning the paint. Try a 70:30 paint to thinners ratio (actual ratio is just a guess)
But, you are dead right to thin the paint. Carry on, it will all turn out fine in the end.

 

[papa 695]

When your painting do you just go in one direction ?
Or do you put your first coat on top to bottom, then when dry go from left to right ?

 

[Guest]

Thanks.
I go in one direction only. Does that make too much difference?
I have put another coat on at 80/20 and looks much better
View attachment 283322
Looking closely at the paint itself, I really don't think it needs thinning at all!
Next two coats (hopefully the last) will be straight from tin...

Getting there!!

What's the best/quick tip wat to bring out the panel lines? I did attempt to draw them in using a 4b pencil before the last coat but really didn't add anything.
Can I dry brush some wearying charcoal stuff' on it and gloss it over? Or will it just not go into the lines?
Edd

 

[papa 695]

Thanks.
I go in one direction only. Does that make too much difference?
I have put another coat on at 80/20 and looks much better
View attachment 283322
Looking closely at the paint itself, I really don't think it needs thinning at all!
Next two coats (hopefully the last) will be straight from tin...

Getting there!!

What's the best/quick tip wat to bring out the panel lines? I did attempt to draw them in using a 4b pencil before the last coat but really didn't add anything.
Can I dry brush some wearying charcoal stuff' on it and gloss it over? Or will it just not go into the lines?
Edd

If you go across the first brush strokes it fills the gaps that the first brush strokes make giving you a smoother finish, if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Guest]

Yeah I understand. On my last coat I did that and I can see how it helps.
Thank you
Edd

 

[papa 695]

If you go across the first brush strokes it fills the gaps that the first brush strokes make giving you a smoother finish, if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

For the panel lines just give a a panel line wash. Thin a dark colour, usually black. Make it very thin then using a fine paintbrush just dab the thinned paint into the panel line. If it's thin enough it should flow along the line.

 

[Guest]

Ooh. That sounds like the best technique I have read yet. Will give it a go tomorrow and let you know. Thanks

Edd

 

[Guest]

Ooh. That sounds like the best technique I have read yet. Will give it a go tomorrow and let you know. Thanks

Edd

The pinwash technique that Ian describes is the best way to accent panel lines Edd, but I seriously wouldn't apply it directly to the model unless you've added a gloss coat first. On matt paint it won't flow very well & will often bleed into the surfaces adjacent to the panel lines, blurring the effect.
You're gonna need a gloss coat anyway for applying the decals later.

Going back to basics, part of the problem you're getting is doing too much too soon.
Enamels need time to cure, not just to dry. Each successive coat is interacting with the previous one & that's making the brush strokes look worse.
Essentially your brush is digging fine grooves in the existing layer of paint as the white spirit burns into it.

Leaving each coat for a minimum of 24 hours (pref 48) will give you much better results. I know it's hard to take so long, but patience is a virtue in this hobby!

Once you're happy with it, leave it for a further 24-48 hours & then apply an acrylic gloss coat...well coats really as it usually needs 2 or 3 to get it nice & glossy.

Leave that for at least 48 hours before applying the pinwash. Load a small amount of the wash on a very fine brush & dab the tip on a panel line - a junction of lines is the best place. Capillary action will draw the wash along the lines & any excess at the point of application can be removed with a cotton bud or kitchen towel.

HTH

 

[Guest]

If you want mate, I can email you a few scale modelling guides that I have from AWM subscriptions that can help give you a few techniques.
Shoot me a pm if you want them
Cheers, John

 

[flyjoe180]

Hi Edd. All good advice here, just one other thing, if you use a primer (you can get primers in spray cans if you don't want to use an airbrush). This will help your enamel paint adhere better to the surfaces. Some colours are better than others for coverage, some satin colours, particularly lighter shades, don't cover very well. There were batches of Humbrol enamels in particular that went through a really bad stage in production. If you can, make sure you're using the tins with the newer logo on them, made in England I think rather than China or elsewhere. Also, with enamels, ensure you stir until all the pigment is dissolved, and then stir some more. Best of luck.

 

[Guest]

Hi Edd. All good advice here, just one other thing, if you use a primer (you can get primers in spray cans if you don't want to use an airbrush). This will help your enamel paint adhere better to the surfaces. Some colours are better than others for coverage, some satin colours, particularly lighter shades, don't cover very well. There were batches of Humbrol enamels in particular that went through a really bad stage in production. If you can, make sure you're using the tins with the newer logo on them, made in England I think rather than China or elsewhere. Also, with enamels, ensure you stir until all the pigment is dissolved, and then stir some more. Best of luck.

I think he said he is using revell enamels, so I dont think he has a bad batch of humbrols
Cheers, John

 

[papa 695]

The pinwash technique that Ian describes is the best way to accent panel lines Edd, but I seriously wouldn't apply it directly to the model unless you've added a gloss coat first. On matt paint it won't flow very well & will often bleed into the surfaces adjacent to the panel lines, blurring the effect.
You're gonna need a gloss coat anyway for applying the decals later.

Going back to basics, part of the problem you're getting is doing too much too soon.
Enamels need time to cure, not just to dry. Each successive coat is interacting with the previous one & that's making the brush strokes look worse.
Essentially your brush is digging fine grooves in the existing layer of paint as the white spirit burns into it.

Leaving each coat for a minimum of 24 hours (pref 48) will give you much better results. I know it's hard to take so long, but patience is a virtue in this hobby!

Once you're happy with it, leave it for a further 24-48 hours & then apply an acrylic gloss coat...well coats really as it usually needs 2 or 3 to get it nice & glossy.

Leave that for at least 48 hours before applying the pinwash. Load a small amount of the wash on a very fine brush & dab the tip on a panel line - a junction of lines is the best place. Capillary action will draw the wash along the lines & any excess at the point of application can be removed with a cotton bud or kitchen towel.

HTH

Thanks Patrick I should have said to put a gloss coat on first.

 

[Guest]

Another option for the more wary, is Flory washes, clay and water based, you can experiment to your heart's content, as if you don't like the effect, you can easily wash it off with a damp cloth. There are videos on Flory's YouTube channel on how to use them.

 

[colin m]

And remember, YouTube is your friend. There are so many great video tutorials on there.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for your replies.
I have left the layers longer between coats now.
I didn't prime this one, but definiently will the next.

If I get a spray can primer, do I spray all the spruces with all the bits on? Or make up the model, then prime (this way, there may be parts that are painted already, I.e. Cockpit)

My order is going to be
Paint,
Gloss,
Panel lines
Decals,
Weathering,
Finish coat.

Is this the right way round for decals, panels and weathering? I wanted the weathering over the top of the decals. Also, do I need to gloss or Matt coat in between these layers?

Cheers again.
(I will update with photos as I go along)
Edd

 

[spanner570]

Just to throw a small spanner in the works - see wot I wrote there?

As you are brush painting (Like me) large areas, such as wings etc., you could do worse than to swap those enamels and change to acrylics. Far easier to apply with a brush than enamels and the waiting time between coats is only a few hours.

Then save your enamels for detail work.

 

[Guest]

When it comes to priming Edd, if you're using enamels, the small parts don't absolutely need to be primed. Some do, but it's not really necessary.

The fact that the cockpit is already painted isn't an issue because the canopy will cover that area. If you're planning to have it wheels down & canopy up, just glue it temporarily with PVA glue.
Then prime the entire airframe.

Switch your order to do the decals before the wash - you want the wash to flow into the panel lines with the markings on. The wash isn't weathering, it's adding necessary depth to the model, and getting away from the toy-like look.

The final coat shouldn't really be too matt. Usually a satin finish looks best.

 

[Guest]

Just to throw a small spanner in the works - see wot I wrote there?

As you are brush painting (Like me) large areas, such as wings etc., you could do worse than to swap those enamels and change to acrylics. Far easier to apply with a brush than enamels and the waiting time between coats is only a few hours.

Then save your enamels for detail work.

You should see my reply in Edd's other post on this subject Ron. I pointed him in the direction of your Leopard thread to show what can be done with acrylics & a hairy stick.

Having said that, enamels are usually far more forgiving for the newbie than acrylics

 

[spanner570]

.....yes I did see the reference, and I hope the thread might be of some use to someone in the same situation as Edd.

Just going on my own experience, and over a large area, I've always found acrylics easier to brush apply than enamels......even for a newbie.

Let's leave it at that, or Edd will get confused as to what's what.