Fighting 48th M4A4 conversion
- Thread starter Ennio
- Start date
G
I think Fighting 48th went out of business years ago, so you would have to be very lucky to find one.
The alternative would be to cut the engine deck off an M4 or M4A3 kit and build the longer M4A4’s deck from plastic card (also lengthening the lower hull, of course) as well as modifying the rear hull plate to match the M4A4. Not the easiest thing to do, but at least you don’t have to build a large grill on the engine deck
BTW, I take it you specifically want it in 1:48 to fit your collection? Because if 1:35 will also do, then I would highly recommend the Sherman V kit from Asuka, or you can buy a Sherman VC from Asuka or Rye Field Model and backdate it to an M4A4 (remove the loader’s hatch and radio box on the turret rear, replace the 17-pounder by a 75 mm, etc.).
The alternative would be to cut the engine deck off an M4 or M4A3 kit and build the longer M4A4’s deck from plastic card (also lengthening the lower hull, of course) as well as modifying the rear hull plate to match the M4A4. Not the easiest thing to do, but at least you don’t have to build a large grill on the engine deck
BTW, I take it you specifically want it in 1:48 to fit your collection? Because if 1:35 will also do, then I would highly recommend the Sherman V kit from Asuka, or you can buy a Sherman VC from Asuka or Rye Field Model and backdate it to an M4A4 (remove the loader’s hatch and radio box on the turret rear, replace the 17-pounder by a 75 mm, etc.).
I'm a 0 scale raikways modellare and I nerd the model in 1/48 for my "gondola" wagon. Tganksxa lot. Ennio
https://www.blitzkriegminiatures.com/tanks/Sherman-M4A4-75mm-1-48-Scale-p264167028 <<< would that do ??
Welcome to the forum Ennio.
Andrea
Andrea
Thanks Andrea.
G
The picture there shows a model of an M4, not an M4A4, though.
I agree, also in another site an Hobby Boss M4 mid production is described as an M4A4
G
I suspect it will be like I said at the start: the only real way to get an M4A4 is probably to convert a small-hatch M4 or M4A3.
Do you have links to photos of Italian Shermans, by any chance?
Do you have links to photos of Italian Shermans, by any chance?
Maybe these pics will help.
Those are 2 Shermans that were part of the North-eastern border fortification and were scrapped at the beginning of the '90s.
The gun had been upgraded and adapted to the tank new role but the hull and turret should still be those which were in service in the Italian Army tank units in the '50s.
I added two drawing showing how they were transformed into a static anti tank bunker.
One of them, probably the one depicted while towed, is still visible near Dobbiaco/Toblach in a small local museum (other pics of that Sherman are available here: bunker museum).
The pictures here below are for discussion only.
Andrea
Those are 2 Shermans that were part of the North-eastern border fortification and were scrapped at the beginning of the '90s.
The gun had been upgraded and adapted to the tank new role but the hull and turret should still be those which were in service in the Italian Army tank units in the '50s.
I added two drawing showing how they were transformed into a static anti tank bunker.
One of them, probably the one depicted while towed, is still visible near Dobbiaco/Toblach in a small local museum (other pics of that Sherman are available here: bunker museum).
The pictures here below are for discussion only.
Andrea
G
Those tanks are not M4A4s but M4A3s. You can tell by the wheel spacing and that there is no bulge on top of the engine deck. The second tank is a very early one, it has the direct vision ports on the fronts of the drivers’ “hoods” and even retains the spoked idler wheel that was phased out because it damaged too easily. The appliqué armour plate on the side that has its top right corner cut off is also common on M4A3s.
The gun mantlet on the second tank seems to be for a 17-pounder gun originally, so these tanks were probably rebuilt from available parts of various tanks. The turret that’s upside-down is clearly from a IC or VC, as it has the rear extension for the radio/counterweight, but the other tank that still has its turret doesn’t have that box at all. It does have a vision cupola, which was not fitted to any British 17-pounder Sherman during the war, so that points to these being “parts kit”-tanks.
What is the gun that is actually fitted? It seems to have a fume extractor, but that is also very thin so it it really one?
Have you got a direct link to the page with more pics of this Sherman? I looked around the site (the German version, the English one is a bit too sparse) but couldn’t find any …
The gun mantlet on the second tank seems to be for a 17-pounder gun originally, so these tanks were probably rebuilt from available parts of various tanks. The turret that’s upside-down is clearly from a IC or VC, as it has the rear extension for the radio/counterweight, but the other tank that still has its turret doesn’t have that box at all. It does have a vision cupola, which was not fitted to any British 17-pounder Sherman during the war, so that points to these being “parts kit”-tanks.
What is the gun that is actually fitted? It seems to have a fume extractor, but that is also very thin so it it really one?
Have you got a direct link to the page with more pics of this Sherman? I looked around the site (the German version, the English one is a bit too sparse
) but couldn’t find any …
Jakko, you may find some more pics of the tank by finding the place on google maps (it is some 1.5 km to the east of the village, just a bit North of the main national route), click on the "bunker museum link and select the pictures.Those tanks are not M4A4s but M4A3s. You can tell by the wheel spacing and that there is no bulge on top of the engine deck. The second tank is a very early one, it has the direct vision ports on the fronts of the drivers’ “hoods” and even retains the spoked idler wheel that was phased out because it damaged too easily. The appliqué armour plate on the side that has its top right corner cut off is also common on M4A3s.
The gun mantlet on the second tank seems to be for a 17-pounder gun originally, so these tanks were probably rebuilt from available parts of various tanks. The turret that’s upside-down is clearly from a IC or VC, as it has the rear extension for the radio/counterweight, but the other tank that still has its turret doesn’t have that box at all. It does have a vision cupola, which was not fitted to any British 17-pounder Sherman during the war, so that points to these being “parts kit”-tanks.
What is the gun that is actually fitted? It seems to have a fume extractor, but that is also very thin so it it really one?
Have you got a direct link to the page with more pics of this Sherman? I looked around the site (the German version, the English one is a bit to sparse :smiling3
From my sources many of the Shermans used as A/T bunkers were fitted with the original 76 mm gun as they were supposed to fire at targets at no more than 1000 m. and the threat was not so heavily armoured as the one foreseen on the NATO central front; maybe some of them were upgraded to the 90/50 but in most cases they had been replaced with a full M26.
Andrea
G
The guns in the photos above aren’t 76 mm, they kind of look like 17-pounders, especially the upside-down one as it seems to still have the typical round muzzle brake. What the thicker part on the barrel,si, though, I have no idea.
Doing it like you said, I find a photo of a large-hatch Sherman, probably an M4A3, with 76 mm turret and gun that’s on display there. That’s a much later variant than the ones in the pictures above, so there’s even more variation, it seems
Doing it like you said, I find a photo of a large-hatch Sherman, probably an M4A3, with 76 mm turret and gun that’s on display there. That’s a much later variant than the ones in the pictures above, so there’s even more variation, it seems
Here are some more info about the gun. It seems it was a 76/52, according to the official blueprint while on the text si reported as 76/55. In the former case it's a 17 pounders, in the latter should be the US gun. Probably both were in use as both kind of Shermans were inherited from the Allied armies at the end of WW2 and found their final destination as A/T bunkers in the alpine fortified line.
I add another pic of the dismantled turret. Maybe the lower part of the gun breech can tell you something more.
The thicker part on the barrel could be a fume extractor, an add-on very useful for a bunker gun, or a counterweight needed to balance the gun in its new and peculiar use or even a reinforcement added to offer some grip to the masking of the bunker, but those are just my educated guess. :nerd:
Ennio, sorry! It seems I'm stealing your thread without bringing more light on your original question. I think it should be better to end it here even if it's an interesting subject. :flushed:
Andrea
I add another pic of the dismantled turret. Maybe the lower part of the gun breech can tell you something more.
The thicker part on the barrel could be a fume extractor, an add-on very useful for a bunker gun, or a counterweight needed to balance the gun in its new and peculiar use or even a reinforcement added to offer some grip to the masking of the bunker, but those are just my educated guess. :nerd:
Ennio, sorry! It seems I'm stealing your thread without bringing more light on your original question. I think it should be better to end it here even if it's an interesting subject. :flushed:
Andrea
G
I tried to do a little more digging as well, and it’s hard to get anywhere because searches like “Italian Sherman tanks” gets you mostly information about tanks used in the Italian campaign of 1943–45. However, I did find this page of the Italian ministry of defence that says M4A1, A2, A3 and A4s were used; the photo there is of an M4A4.
I think the thing on the barrel has to do with the bunker, it’s too small to be a fume extractor and in any case, those things were pretty much never retrofitted to existing guns, probably because it requires drilling holes through the barrel. The upside-down turret seems to have a 17-pounder gun, but I’m not sure.
Sherman V (the British designation for the M4A4; this has a British stowage box on the turret so I’m calling it by its British name), easily recognised by the wide spacing between the wheels.
Sherman VC (not 95, 5C), which is a Sherman V with 17-pounder gun.
M4, a fairly early version going by the rear mudguards and the cut-out in the rear plate.
Do you have a better version of this photo? It’s very blurry so it’s just about impossible to see the details needed to work out the variant from this angle. All I can really say from this is that has a small-hatch hull and it’s not an M4 composite or an M4A1, but that’s about it. A photo in which the engine deck or hull rear is visible would be great if you have it
I think the thing on the barrel has to do with the bunker, it’s too small to be a fume extractor and in any case, those things were pretty much never retrofitted to existing guns, probably because it requires drilling holes through the barrel. The upside-down turret seems to have a 17-pounder gun, but I’m not sure.
Sherman V (the British designation for the M4A4; this has a British stowage box on the turret so I’m calling it by its British name), easily recognised by the wide spacing between the wheels.
Sherman VC (not 95, 5C
), which is a Sherman V with 17-pounder gun.M4, a fairly early version going by the rear mudguards and the cut-out in the rear plate.
Do you have a better version of this photo? It’s very blurry so it’s just about impossible to see the details needed to work out the variant from this angle. All I can really say from this is that has a small-hatch hull and it’s not an M4 composite or an M4A1, but that’s about it. A photo in which the engine deck or hull rear is visible would be great if you have it
Ciao Andrea, di dove sei?
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