discussion 1:1 Avro Baby

[Guest]

Hi

just for interest this is my current project, a 1:1 Avro Baby interactive replica for a Bert Hinkler commemorative museum. People will be able to get in and work the controls.

This 1920's aircraft had a 35hp Green engine.

Wingspan was 25 ft which seems tiny after the last effort, which was the 52ft span DH61.

Next job when the fuselage is finished is to make the wings. If it's of interest I could keep posting progress shots .

The last picture here is the original, displayed in a museum in Brisbane, Australia.

cheers

GeoffR

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[Guest]

Certainly an interesting project Geoff. Makes you want to put your goggles and helmet on and really live the experience!!

 

[Guest]

The fuselage went out today, to make room for commencing the wings next week.

However it would be fun to make the propeller first.

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[wonwinglo]

Geoff,these full sized models are just great ! certainly we want you to keep sending pictures,out of interest which type of material is used on those white fuselage panels ? there is a real demand for building replicas of famous aircraft so that people today can see just what they looked like,thank goodness we have people like yourself with the necessay skills to build them,tell us a bit more about how you go about the build,they are works of art in themselves.

 

[Guest]

Hi Barry

the real Avro Baby fuselage (apart from the prototype) was made from steel tube covered with plywood panels in the front and fabric aft of that. Cowls were aluminium.

These 'replicas' are made from mild steel tube and sheeted with flat panels which are low-tech fibreglass laid up on a flat table and cut to size. They are attached to the steel frame by fibreglass tapes on the inside, and joined by frp tapes on the outside, which are smoothed and refinished to give an authentic appearance.

With the wings, first a single wing section with a wingtip on each end is made from plywood ribs with steel spars and covered with fabric, tapes applied over the ribs and the ribs are sewn. This is painted with dope, then 2-pack paint and a mould taken from it. The wings are then made from that mould (port wing is made by blanking off the stb wingtip, etc) from fibreglass with steel tube spars. Thus the wings have authentic appearance, with fabric pattern, tapes visible and undulations between ribs, but are very robust and maintenance-free.

Flying wires are made from flat steel strip with left and right threaded rod at each end, and all the turnbuckle ends are made from mild steel round bar using lathe and milling machine.

Engines are made from fibreglass using moulds for repeated shapes. Wheels are automotive or motorcycle wheels with the tread ground off.

The overall result is quite convincing. Here's a pic of the DH61 at Longreach.

The next job after the Avro Baby is a DH50. You can see the engine for the DH50 (Armstrong Siddeley Puma..we have 2) in the second of the Avro Baby pics I posted earlier. For that replica we have original engine, propeller, wheels, & radiator with shutters, so it will be partly restoration and partly replica.

Other fullsized aircraft in this construction contemplated for Longreach QANTAS museum are the Be2e, Armstrong Whitworth FK8, DH 86, and possibly Short S23 Empire, although the latter seems a bit ambitious.

A good thing about these replicas is that they are very robust, so people can interact with them (within reason)without fear of damage.

GeoffR

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[wonwinglo]

Geoff,your methods of construction certainly work well, and I can see the requirement for a sturdy structure within a public domain,thank you for explaining the very interesting technique,after all fabric is so fragile and has poor longevity for one thing,a DH.86 Express is mind boggling let alone a Short Empire which I am sure you are capable of constructing given the amount of space required.

I wonder if you are familiar with the work of Ken Fern in the UK ? he builds replica aircraft also for museums and is currently involved with a Percival Mew Gull,also in the past he has built an Austin Whippet biplane,his main job is building propellers.

Building the aircraft that you do gives everyone the chance to see what these pioneering aircraft looked like in the flesh,one thing is for sure and that is the Giant Moth is exactly what it says,a giant ! you obviously enjoy your work very much and it gives a lot of pleasure to many others.

Please keep in touch as you have a receptive audience here.

 

[Guest]

Hi Geoff,

I have just viewed the thread and can only agree with Barry here, Some excellent work there and very fine looking Models too.

Keep the posts coming and of course the pics too.

Regards......Mark.

 

[Guest]

Mark and Barry

it's certainly pleasant building aircraft replicas when I have such free rein over how I do it. A big bonus for me is when people are interested. When I'm building a replica of an aircraft that nobody has seen except in pictures for over 50 years, it's like bringing a dinosaur back to life, and people tend to share my fascination with the whole idea.

(Normally I build sailing boats, which are pleasant, but relatively dull compared with aircraft)

thanks for the interest, and comments.

I'll certainly keep you up to date as I progress.

I wish someone needed an HP42! Now there's an aeroplane, and I have moulds for the Bristol Jupiter!

ah well, I should count my blessings

regards

GeoffR

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[wonwinglo]

Geoff,I am sure that the Croydon Airport Society,plus the Imperial Airways research group would love you to build them an HP42.

It is very good of you to devote your time here and explain a few of the mysteries of your giant 'Models' obviously your skills in building sailing boats has stood you in good stead with these replica aircraft.

Can you tell us a bit more about the initial mould making process please ? now we have all made small moulds from rubber compounds but nothing along the size of your projects,I was intrigued about your comments on the moulding of the wings on the biplanes ie simulating all of the rib tapes etc,so is the initial mould also laid up in fibreglass or rubber ? it would seem to me that once you have those moulds then further replicas would be possible,this would cut the obviously time consuming pattern costs.

Also you are probably aware of the several full sized Avro Lancaster models now being built in the States,I understand that one is nearing completion,also several air museums have alrady put their names forward to secure these aircraft after the filming of the new 'Dambusters'film.

The only film work that I have been involved with was for the TV series 'The Avengers' we made some trainer Ventura kits for the people who flew some large scale model Lancasters in one of the episodes,at that time I was producing the UK's first ARTF.

If I was closer then you would certainly have some help with those interesting projects ! we really appreciate your postings here,I just wanted you to know that.

 

[Guest]

Barry

I can describe the wing making process for you and I've dredged up some very low quality pics that are nevertheless informative. This is just the way I do it.

In the first picture I've made the wing prototype from pywood ribs with square tube steel spars and round steel pipe leading edge.

In the second picture I'm covering that wing with Ceconite but linen or cotton would do.

In the third picture I'm painting the wing with 2 pack paint after doping with clear dope to tighten.

In the fourth picture I've made a melamine finish mdf flange about 75mm wide and held it just below the centreline to provide the pattern for a flange around the mould. I've sponged pva release agent onto the wing & flange to stop them from sticking to the mould.

In the fifth picture I've gelcoated over the wing to make the mould, and applied several layers of glass, and I'm now attaching a stiffening frame to the mould.

In the sixth picture the moulds are now made (I'm assuming you can think your way through the repetitive process of moulding the bottom side of the wing) and I've gelcoated the mould (after pva release agent applied) ready to lay up the first wing. You can see I've blanked off the wingtip I don't need.

In the seventh picture I've applied about 900gm/sq metre of chopstrand matt.

In the eighth picture I'm making the square steel tube spars for the port lower wing by mating them directly to the fuselage wing fittings.

In the ninth picture some spars are laying in the wing.

In the tenth pic I've put some foam stiffeners (covered with glass strips) to stiffen the rib areas of the wing.

continued....

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[Guest]

Wing making continued....

In the eleventh pic you can see the foam beams that demark the ailerons. The foam is dug out later to leave the gap between aileron and wing.

In number twelve the wing is nearly ready to join. You can see the compression struts glassed onto the bottom skin.

In number thirteen the wing is about to be joined by matching the moulds together. There are wet glass strips around the edge to bond top to bottom.

In number fourteen the moulds have been pulled apart.

In number 15 a completed wing is removed from the mould.

Obviously there will be detail, such as plates welded to the spars to accept the struts which are attached by tapping through from the outside.

I hope this makes sense, and is of some use.

GeoffR

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[wonwinglo]

Geoff,I have found the whole process fascinating and would never have thought of makings wings in this way,thank you for taking the time and trouble in explaining the exact system that you use,it must consume literally gallons of resin ? certainly look forward to seeing your future projects described here,just keep thinking of that DH.86 Express,what a beauty that will be.

 

[Guest]

That is a wonderful project going on there. I'm surprised anyone would do this. Well done mate and keep up the good work it is truly amazing lol.

 

[Guest]

Avro Baby continued:

Hi all,

The wing pattern for the Avro Baby wing is now ready for covering.

Once covered and tautened with dope, the ribs sewn and tapes applied, it will be painted with 2-pack paint, and then a fibreglass mould will be made from it.

Because it has a wingtip on each end, the mould will be able to make both left and right hand wings.

regards

GeoffR

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[Guest]

Hi All

well the Avro Baby is finished and I delivered to Bundaberg where it is in storage until the museum is finished in April, but not open 'till the end of the year I'm guessing.Here's a picture.

My current project is to refurbish the Avro Avian replica of the one that Hinkler flew to Australia; they have a rudimentary replica that needs a lot of tweaking to make it look like the real thing.

Simultaneously we've started the 1/4 Scale B24 Liberator for the Tocumwal Historic Aerodrome Museum. First part of the project already underway is to make silicone moulds for the Pratt and Whitney R1830-65 plus hub and propeller so I can churn those out.

I'll be taking moulds from this replica as there were 10 Squadrons in this region that had Liberators, so 10 towns that are potential buyers for a 1/4 scale replica I hope.

GeoffR

 

[Guest]

The replica looks superb and what a fantastic job - modelling a 1/4 scale Liberator! I'm sure there must be a lot of jealous forum members on here!

Keep us upto date with that build, it'd be of great interest to see what construction methods you use, especially making the patterns for the castings etc.

 

[Guest]

What a lovely looking model and what a lot of satisfaction it must give you to know it is going to be on display at a museum.

Now a 1/4 scale liberator, that's going to need a bit of room!!

 

[wonwinglo]

Geoff many thanks for sending these pictures of the Avro Baby,she is a real beauty and a credit to you.

Keep us informed of any future projects together with these pictures,your replicas are quite unique.

 

[Guest]

Absolutely fascinating. Yeah...would love to see an HP42!