discussion Applying decals..

[Guest]

Do not put matt varnish onto the windows they will cloud up! If you want them to lok like glass give them a coat of clear otherwise just mask them before applying the varnish! You will find that the vinegar will have no effect on a set/ dried decal the silvering that you mentioned is as Bunkerbarge says the surface was not smooth / glossy enough for the decal to adhere properly softening the decal will not help remove the air from underneath only a wetting agent could do that and again only if the surface was very smooth !!! but hey we learn something new each day and we have all done the same dont let it put you off as the next one will be even better:dan1:

 

[Guest]

Yeah im sure thats the reason for the silvering, ie, not a very smooth paint job. Would it be wise in future to thin the paint a little? (and also get some better brushes!) i'll need to practice painting a bit more eitherway.

Regarding the windows on the canopy, it's allready been given a coat of Klear (including the painted frames) so if im spraying it matt im gonna have to mask those up again....that should be fun....not!

 

[Guest]

The best would be to spray the paint by using either spray tins or an air brush but if you want to use normal brushes then make sure the paint is well mixed and not from an old tin. Read through the Back to Basics tutorial on painting for some ideas. You shouldn't need to thin down paint to brush it but take care if it is old and getting a bit past it.

Spray tins are a good start to get you into spraying without any fuss and mess and are a good intermediate stage before investing in an air brush. Tamiya do a range of spray acrylics which I have just used to spray my Revel U-Boat which came out with a very nice finish.

Things like masking windows are something that you will gain experience with after experimentation and you can either leave the windows off and fill the cockpit area with tissue or leave the masking on the windows until all painting operations have been completed.

When I made planes the canopy was the very last thing I fitted as there was always a danger of it getting marred by glue. paint, fingers etc and you want the window to be perfect when you finish it.

 

[Guest]

As much as i'd love an airbrush, the price of a compressor really puts me off lol it's something i'll consider if i get more into the hobby though.

I have thought about spray cans, but do you get the same range of colours? and how would you match them with the colours the kit tells you? they'd definately give a much better finish than brushing though. I just couldn't seem to avoid ugly brush strokes

I've the left canopy off so far aswell, so it's been in a safe place waiting to be put on.

I know i've asked this before, and everyones probably sick of me mentioning it, but can anyone recomend a matt varnish spray that a model shop/craft shop should have? is there specific varnishes for enamel paints or will any do? just dont want to ruin it all on the last step!

Cheers

 

[Guest]

Ronseal matt varnish comes in big containers and will last for ever plus it isnt dead matt it has a very slight sheen so it brings a model to life

 

[wonwinglo]

Tamiya aerosols come with a soft spray head,the paints match anything that you will use in the tins,whilst expensive they do give a good finish,I did the Airfix airfield vehicle set with them and was very pleased with the result.

Forget the model shop matt varnishes,as Nigel says good old Ronseal does the best job by far ( thanks Nigel I just could not remember that name ? ) and it is cheap by comparison with the tinlets which have far too much pumice sediment and dry streaky.

 

[Guest]

Dont suppose they do a spray? i'd rather not get even more brush strokes on this unless these varnishes are the same consistancy as Klear? that seems easy enough to avoid brush marks with.

 

[Guest]

You can actually buy very cheap spray guns, sometimes even called air brushes but they are not, I know Humbrol used to do one and they are only about 15.00 pounds.

One of those with a tin of propellant would do a matt varnish nicely until you decide to go for a proper air brush. Just mix up the Ronseal very very very thoroughly, mix with a paint thinners, probably around 70-30 varnish to thinners to start with but you are looking for that milky consistency again, and away you go. Practise on scrap first until you get the hang of it but that type of air brush/spray gun will get you hooked.

I used one for years as a teenager and achieved some successfull finishes with it.

 

[Guest]

have you not seen the new advert for the Ronseal spray gun?

there is a guy painting his brush by hand, then another guy painting it with the spray gun dong the laughing policeman thing....

does exaclty what it says on the tin...

sorry couldnt resist.

oh, and as for matching paints the tamiya sprays there aer conversion site around on the net, or you could just do a tamiya kit and nearly every single kit tells you to use one of their sprays (or 2 or 3) for the main/bass colours. (and obvioulsy it tells you which spray to use.)

next time you go into your model shop, open up a tamiya box (they are enver selotaped like airfix or revell) take a look at the intstruction leaflet (usually at the bottom unless someone else has had a look before you) and the first paints lists will always be the sprays (eg TS-44)

 

[Guest]

Bunkerbarge - Are these the kinda things your talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-7-Piece-Precision-Airbrush-kit-with-propellent_W0QQitemZ8281543553

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIR-BRUSH-KIT-LOW-POSTAGE-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ8283245701

Im sure i've seen a humbrol/revell one like you mentioned aswell. Realising how cheap these are i think i will pick one up sometime soon

rjwood - Cheers, will have a look next time im there.

 

[Guest]

That's the kind of thing. Cheap and cheerfull, don't expect precision but something to have a really good play with and get the hang of.

You will soon grow out of it but it will have taught you a lot in the meantime and perfect for a matt varnish.

 

[Guest]

I guess it'd be okay for laying down a coat of primer aswell and for doing larger/less intricate camo patterns etc I think it'd come in handy for this Challenger tank im about to begin soon aswell.

I'll still need to practice my good old brush painting though lol surely can't be that hard to paint without leaving ugly brush strokes!

 

[wonwinglo]

I started with one of these,ok for larger areas but do not expect fine lines or adjustment as the more expensive items.

 

[wonwinglo]

It has probably been mentioned here previously,but I will re-iterate the importance of using decent brushes,what ever you do forget those sold in model shops,go to your local art shop who will sell a first class range of decent brushes,for £1.99 each regardless of type of brush,a company called 'Royal' sell a superb range of brushes,you can get flatty,round,pointed etc etc and all at a uniform price,they are excellent value for money,use these and you can get excellent finishes on your models,they are rugged and clean out well,don not forget to rinse in a little baby shampoo swished around in some water before putting them away,this removes further colour from the ferrule ( metal portion of the brush ) which builds up over a period of time,do not use washing up liquid as it is far too harsh and contains ingredients that will damage the bristles.

The brushes sold in model shops are just cheap imported rubbish,sorry but that is a fact,go to the people who sell brushes for a living and know all about them as well.

 

[Guest]

That gun is more commonly known as a Badger 350 they are also sold in the guises of Humbrol Revell and modellers Airbrush! if all your gonna use it for is varnishing or large surface area's then its a good buy

 

[Guest]

Well i've just picked one up at the whopping price of £3.99 (plus £1.75 p&p)

This one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8283245701



Just need to get some propellant to use with it now.

Do you need to thin down paints for use in airbrushes? (not more questions! i hear you say lol)

 

[Guest]

i have a badger 200, i love it. still practicing, practicing, practicing......

yes you do need to thin paints down

if you are using enamels you can use white spirit (big bottle for a couple of quid from wilcos) or a few other things you can use...il let richard or barry explain all them. if you are using acrylics it is best to use acrylic thinners (some people use water) which you can get from model shop/hardware store.

this is what i have, website i got this pic off sell it for £62...i think i paid about £30 for mine!!!

View attachment 14154

View attachment 126680

 

[Guest]

Cool, looks fairly similar, no doubt better quality though considering the price difference!

I think i'll be using enamels again for this tank i've started building so white spirit it is What kind of consistancy do you need to get the paint to?

How long does the propellant last? i've seen cans much bigger than the ones in your picture mind you, im guessing thats just the can you got with the kit though.

 

[Guest]

yes the can is just one that came with it, i use 400ml cans which will easily do about 6 of your tanks!! cost about 6 quid from a little shop in my town.

the paint needs to be thinned down to a "milky consistancy"

i.e. when you tilt the pot, then level it again there should be a thin layer of paint that you can kind of see through when you look at it. like when you drink a glass of milk.....(seriously drink a glass of milk and have a look at it once you have taken a glug!!!)

im sure some other people could eloborate in more detail, never spray straight onto the model, even though you are doing a large serfice practice on some card, or maybe an old flowerpot, anything!!!! untill you are comfortable with getting a nice even THIN layer, gradually building the layers up once each one has dried untill you get the right shade you want.

NEVER GO WITH THE ERGE TO JUST KEEP SPRAYING BACK AND FORTH UNTILL YOU HAVE A NICE THICK LAYER, IT WILL ONLY RUN AND RUIN IT!!!

 

[Guest]

Bigger tins are better as the cooling effect is a lot less.

What happens is that as the gas evaporates the higher energy molecules are being removed from the equation so the resultant average energy level decreases and the temperature drops. As the temperature drops the chemistry gives way to physics and the rate of evaporation of the gas reduces, thereby eventually dropping the pressure.

The bigger the tin the less this happens. Other ways of avoiding it are to warm the tin in warm water but that can be a bit hit and miss and cause too high a pressure if you get it wrong and the paint starts to dry too quickly.

What I always did was learn to live with it. After a period of painting give it a rest, clean the nozzle, and let the temperature rise again. You will soon get the hang of how long you have before you need to stop and with small models you won't have a problem.

Consistency is always described as "Milky", which is a bit vauge but when you swirl it around the jar you should see it adhere to the sides and run down sort of like a milk would look. Try it first though on a test peice. In fact try quite a few jars of paint on test peices to get the feel of what it will do, how long the paint will last, gas pressure etc..etc..

Richard has it in a nutshell, drink a glass of milk and have a look!!