discussion Caution

[Guest]

Thanks for all the replies folks I am on the mend now but need to keep an eye on my blood oxygen as it is still not right I use a 3m mask and ventilation but apparently that is still not enough I was told it was benzene or similar that caused it mainly and comes from certain paints Inc acrylics, the thing is it builds up slowly with no warnings until one day your body has had enough so no model building for me for at least a fortnight.

Do they say that you recover well and it gets back out of your system?

 

[Guest]

Thanks for all the replies folks I am on the mend now but need to keep an eye on my blood oxygen as it is still not right I use a 3m mask and ventilation but apparently that is still not enough I was told it was benzene or similar that caused it mainly and comes from certain paints Inc acrylics, the thing is it builds up slowly with no warnings until one day your body has had enough so no model building for me for at least a fortnight.

Hi Ray, glad you are on the mend mate. I have Emphysema & my lungs are only working at less than 20% what they should be & I have to go on oxygen for several hours a day, Even when modelling lol.


I use a Pulse Oximeter like they use in hospital to check my blood/oxygen levels which I bought on ebay if you do not have one, I find it very handy to check levels.


I recently spent 2 weeks in hospital & in 5th week of recovery & the Mojo is just returning, You take care & just do things when you feel up to it don't push it...


John.

 

[stona]

I always use a 3M half face mask (3M 4255) with FFA2P3 protection.
Steve, do you reckon the protection level on this mask is OK for what we're doing?.

I use the same mask and it is designed to do the job we need it to do. DO remember to replace the filters, they have a finite life, even if you keep the mask in a sealed bag.


I believe that a good spray booth with good extraction, that is one that shifts a significant volume of air is almost as important as your mask. My 'Exagon' shifts over 350 m3/hr from my work area. It wasn't cheap (around £200) but what price your health?


I don't wear a mask for construction. My exposure to fumes from adhesives is very small. I work in a large and well ventilated area though I know not everyone is so lucky. I also replace the cap/lid on my solvent bottles in between use. This doesn't just reduce my exposure it saves me money as the liquid cements I use are quite volatile and I'd rather use them to stick models together than to pollute the atmosphere of my work space


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

Hi Ray, glad you are on the mend mate. I have Emphysema & my lungs are only working at less than 20% what they should be & I have to go on oxygen for several hours a day, Even when modelling lol.
I use a Pulse Oximeter like they use in hospital to check my blood/oxygen levels which I bought on ebay if you do not have one, I find it very handy to check levels.


I recently spent 2 weeks in hospital & in 5th week of recovery & the Mojo is just returning, You take care & just do things when you feel up to it don't push it...


John.

I have a blood oxygen meter at home so keeping an eye on it its currently hovering around 90-91%

 

[Guest]

I use a face mask designed to filter fumes for short painting sessions. For longer spraying I have got a full face mask with filter on belt which provides fresh air over your face.

Where does that fresh air come from? The room?!

 

[Guest]

Well just a small caution I ended up in hospital with a thing called methemoglobinemia.
This I


Was due to a gradual build up from paint fumes glue etc due to model making even with a mask on.


It was so serious I was blue in colour and very ill indeed I was told that if I had slightly higher readings than I had I might have died subsequently I have now got liver function problems and ended up in hospital for a week so take care folks.

What was the solvent/chemical that you were breathing? Enamels, acrylics, cellulose thinnners, ....?

 

[stona]

There are many things that can cause methemoglobinemia, which is essentially a blood disorder, and many have nothing to do with model making. I'm not a doctor so I won't say more than that


Cheers


Steve

 

[Paul Davies]

Where does that fresh air come from? The room?!

The fresh air comes from a filter unit on a belt. Put a link in a previous post to show what I use

 

[Guest]

The blood test recorded benzene amongst another chemical so the hospital has put it down to my model making as that's the only place I could have got this into my system so they say some sort of adhesive or paint etc

 

[Guest]

I have a blood oxygen meter at home so keeping an eye on it its currently hovering around 90-91%

Just sat in a chair watching tv & without oxygen im about the same, but drops to 85-83 if active.

 

[Guest]

I believe that a good spray booth with good extraction, that is one that shifts a significant volume of air is almost as important as your mask. My 'Exagon' shifts over 350 m3/hr from my work area. It wasn't cheap (around £200) but what price your health?

Good point. I invested in a GraphicAir A300 a few years ago and it's great for shifting fumes out of the shed.


The Exagon is a good option and wasn't around when I bought mine otherwise I probably would have gone for that instead.

 

[BBdave]

As far as I can remember benzene is one of the main ingredients of fuel oil extremely carsinogenic far more dangerous than the lead ever was .


Dave

 

[Guest]

The fresh air comes from a filter unit on a belt. Put a link in a previous post to show what I use

That link showed only the half-mask. At £15, it has to be discarded after one month of use and replaced (no replacement filter pads), so quite expensive.


What I was interested in was the other: " full face mask with filter on belt which provides fresh air over your face." That seems the safest way. Name, where available?


Thanks.

 

[Paul Davies]

That link showed only the half-mask. At £15, it has to be discarded after one month of use and replaced (no replacement filter pads), so quite expensive.
What I was interested in was the other: " full face mask with filter on belt which provides fresh air over your face." That seems the safest way. Name, where available?


Thanks.

http://www.srsafety.com/products/ansiktsdelar-till-sr-500-och-srsr-700/skarm-sr-540

 

[stona]

The blood test recorded benzene

I'd be surprised if any model making products contained benzene. Some commercially available paints still use benzene as a solvent, but there are alternatives.


Even back in the '70s we were minimising the use of benzene in laboratories, it's use was strictly regulated and we had to use something similar (like toluene, which is a commonly used solvent in paints, varnishes etc) unless benzene was unavoidable as part of a process.


I would expect any commercially available paints, fillers or solvents to contain the much less problematic toluene in place of benzene if such a chemical was required.


I've had a look at several different tins of Humbrol, White Ensign, Xtracolour and Modelmaster enamel paints and none list benzene as an ingredient. The only recognisable solvents listed are MEK, naptha and 'Stoddard Solvent'. The latter is a similar to white spirits. The deleterious effects of benzene on human health have been known since the mid 20th century to my knowledge.


It might be that the medics used the generic term 'benzenes' to describe other aromatic hydrocarbons. If they really meant benzene then it might be you were exposed elsewhere.


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

I'd be surprised if any model making products contained benzene. Some commercially available paints still use benzene as a solvent, but there are alternatives.
Even back in the '70s we were minimising the use of benzene in laboratories, it's use was strictly regulated and we had to use something similar (like toluene, which is a commonly used solvent in paints, varnishes etc) unless benzene was unavoidable as part of a process.


I would expect any commercially available paints, fillers or solvents to contain the much less problematic toluene in place of benzene if such a chemical was required.


I've had a look at several different tins of Humbrol, White Ensign, Xtracolour and Modelmaster enamel paints and none list benzene as an ingredient. The only recognisable solvents listed are MEK, naptha and 'Stoddard Solvent'. The latter is a similar to white spirits. The deleterious effects of benzene on human health have been known since the mid 20th century to my knowledge.


It might be that the medics used the generic term 'benzenes' to describe other aromatic hydrocarbons. If they really meant benzene then it might be you were exposed elsewhere.


Cheers


Steve

Hmm interesting I do use other spray paints non humbrol etc I think a bit more investigation is needed I have the vet this week so will say to him

 

[Guest]

I'd be surprised if any model making products contained benzene. Some commercially available paints still use benzene as a solvent, but there are alternatives.
Even back in the '70s we were minimising the use of benzene in laboratories, it's use was strictly regulated and we had to use something similar (like toluene, which is a commonly used solvent in paints, varnishes etc) unless benzene was unavoidable as part of a process.


I would expect any commercially available paints, fillers or solvents to contain the much less problematic toluene in place of benzene if such a chemical was required.


I've had a look at several different tins of Humbrol, White Ensign, Xtracolour and Modelmaster enamel paints and none list benzene as an ingredient. The only recognisable solvents listed are MEK, naptha and 'Stoddard Solvent'. The latter is a similar to white spirits. The deleterious effects of benzene on human health have been known since the mid 20th century to my knowledge.


It might be that the medics used the generic term 'benzenes' to describe other aromatic hydrocarbons. If they really meant benzene then it might be you were exposed elsewhere.


Cheers


Steve

Green putty from squadron and zero pastimes mention toluene and it sounds really bad for your health and i use both. What's your opinion on toluene as I'd like more info on it!

 

[stona]

I'm not a doctor so I can't really comment on things like toxicity. As a chemist we used toluene in place of benzene as a solvent because it is considered much more benign and most importantly is not a carcinogen.


It can cause problems and there will be statutory limits on work place exposure somewhere. I don't see anyway you can come close to that sort of exposure through normal use of a model putty. If you do have sensitive skin or are prone to skin problems then wearing some latex gloves might be worthwhile when handling a product containing toluene. The same could be said for any other organic solvent.


In the laboratory the biggest danger from toluene was probably the risk of fire! Ohh, it is quite easy to make TNT if you've got some nitric acid handy (and maybe a bit of sulphuric if I remember correctly...it's been a long time since I did any of this stuff) That can obviously have some serious consequences if you do it in an 'uncontrolled' way


Cheers


Steve

 

[stona]

I was intrigued by this and have just had an exchange of emails with an ex-colleague who only recently retired from a well known chemical company where we both worked many years ago.


He says that benzene has not been permitted in products marketed to the public for 'a long time' with the exception of petrol. A long time might not be an exactly scientific quantity, but it means not for many years.


The significant environmental source of benzene is now petrol, for example trace amounts in meat, fish, nuts etc. Smoking cigarettes also gives a dose of benzene, about 800 micro grams per day for twenty fags.


If the medics really do mean benzene, as in that specific chemical, then it can't possibly be from this hobby and someone should be asking where it really did come from.


Cheers


Steve

 

[ojays]

Having spent most of my working life using, cellulose, 2 pack epoxy, acrylic, toluene, fibre resin, fibre glass, cyanoacrylate, & several assorted water based paints.


Maybe stupidly, hardly ever wearing a mask, (touch wood) I have never suffered any breathing or major respiratory problems associated with the above products.


I agree with Steve, maybe another diagnosis may be beneficial.