discussion Graupner Wiesel Shnellboot.

[Guest]

my dad got the wiesel model about 30 years ago, and it gets a bit more done to it every now and then. i have nearly finished it now, but i am having trouble with the propulsion system. i have read the old posts regarding this, but am none the wiser. i have the original kit, not the re-released version, and it has been rigged up with the three motors and shafts. it seems to be very unstable when running on all three motors. any suggestions as to whether to drop it down to 2 or even 1 motor.

i guess i might just try out both options and see what happens. if anyone has any experience in this, could you help? if not, i'll try both ways and post which is the more stable.

thanks.

 

[Guest]

Hi Jimbo,

I most probably built mine about the same time as your father bought yours.

Unfortunately I did a very regrettable thing, a few years later, with empy pockets, I had to sell it, and regretted it from that day to this. To me it was one of the most realistic sailing models I have ever built. I did buy another kit when one became available, the old issue, not the new. Unfortunately it is sitting in my loft untouched, as I will never be able to build it.

But to get back to your problem.

When I made mine, I thought the C of G would cause a few problems because of the fairly high superstructure and a lot of brass wire, coupled to a fairly shallow draught. So because of this, I set the battery (6 volt gel cell), on its side, on the bottom of the hull. For power I used 2 x 380's on the outboard tubes and a 540 on the centre. I fitted it out so that it only used the 380's normally, but at the flick of a switch the 540 was brought into play to get me out of trouble. The boat does look unstable and heels a lot when turning, but this is normal and is why I liked the boat from the very beginning, because it simulated the full size just right. There is only one major drawback with the hull, and that is when going in reverse at speed, if you haven't got a good deck seal you become the owner of a very fast submarine.

If I was to build it now, I would most probably go for 3 x 12volt 385's, all working in unison. There are a lot more modern motors available now, plus I have learned a lot since I built mine.

I have included a few German sites for you to have a look at. Don't know if they all still work correctly.

I hope that this info has given you what you need, if not ask away and I will try to get my brain cells working again to remember exactly what was done.

http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.ig-schiffsmodellbau.de/wiesel.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522schnellboot%2Bwiesel%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

Translated version of http://www.marinemodell-fotoarchiv.de/fotoarchiv/flottenparade/flottenparade2002/Deutsch/wiesel.html

Translated version of http://www.fmg-bln.de/wiesel.htm

Translated version of http://www.u-boot-modell.de/modellbau/wiesel.htm

John

 

[Guest]

Hi John

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my queriery.

I've tried with the center motor only and the boat is a lot more stable but very slow. I've also tried with both outbard motors and at speed the boat leans, but I think this is mainly due to the fact that both props turn the same direction. I'm going to try reversing one prop so that they oppose each other when they turn. Hopfully this will level the boat out and not throw it to one side.

I've got two opposing props but they are bigger, maybe 60% bigger. Do you think this will affect the boat handling and speed? I'll have to take out the center prop though.

I've water tested the boat several times now and it handles really well and is a nice boat in the water. I've now finished it, bar propulsion and once it's painted i'll post some pics of it. Sorry to hear that you can not build your one! Is there anyone that could build it for you?

Cheers for the help Simon

 

[Guest]

Simon,

Sorry to disappoint you, but prop selection is a minefield, everything interacts with each other, motor size, power output, pitch of the prop, type of prop.

I always went for the size shown on the plan and either stayed at that or went smaller with a coarser pitch on. The model steering characteristics also changes, depending on the rotation of the props, whether both going inwards or outwards when viewed from the rear. There is a general concensus about which ways props should run, but to me the way to do it is suck it and see, one way will most probably give better handling, whilst the other might give more power but less steerage.

Sorry I can't be any more helpful than that.

The reason my boat will not be built is that I can't handle them any more, a bit heavy. I am just clearing out all my model boat stuff at the moment.

John

 

[Guest]

hi Jimbo, as said props are a minefield, suggest you look at Propshop web site or talk to Simon with as much info on motors as possible ie speed, amps etc normally woud set up outer props as a left and right hand pair with the centre of sightly coarser pitch, but Simon is the best I heace:ve used so far, regardfs, Aquarama

 

[Guest]

cheers for the info on props. i have been to my local model shop and they can order in some opposing props, but it may take a little while to get them. i have decided that i am going to run the boat on a single engine, the centre one, but upgrade it to a 540 electric instead of the one that is in there. i think it is a 340/360. unfortunatley there are no markings on the motors to be able to tell what they actually are. also, i am going to up the size of the prop itself, from M4X30 to an M4X35. i want to keep the outer props and shafts in place for asphetic reasons, as it will probably be on a shelf on display most of the time. if i go to a 40mm prop, i think it'll interfere with the outer props. plus, i can always go back to the original plan of running on the outer engines in the future.

i'm just about to start painting it now :thinking:, so i will post some pics when it is finish.

cheers for the help.

simon

 

[Guest]

Hi Jimbo

The Graupner website list the props as part numbers 2303.32 and 2303.32L at Euros 2.45 each.You could buy direct from them or you will probably find Westbourne Models have them in stock.I suggest you run the two outer props turning inwards.

Hope this helps

Sonparc

 

[Guest]

Graupner's Wiesel (Newbie)

I too am a builder of the original run (142a version) of a Graupner Wiesel. I purchased it in London in 1975 and started building it. I had to set aside for family and job reasons. Eventually I restarted building it then the internet slowly made available a number of photographs on the type 142 & 142a boats.

Now I found that Graupner produced a semi-scale model, not what I wanted to build. I have been cutting and hacking at the model to try and get it close to scale. That will not happen with me as the deck and structure are out of proportion, but at least it will be much better than following the directions.

If all goes well, I hope to get the boat in the water this fall. I wonder with the handling issues that are posted here, has anyone tried to reduce the throttle movement? The big boats had two rudders and the model has three. Perhaps there is too much over steer and if you reduce the maximum rudder throw you might correct some of the problems. Just a thought. If you try this, please let me know.

Lew

 

[Guest]

Both Graupner and Robbe only produce semi scale models, and I have been saying this for years and have been cried down for it. Graupner are a little better than Robbe though, and do attempt to make them a little more scale like.

If I remember rightly the full sized Wiesel had a four prop output, but can't remember if it had four rudders as well.

I have to admit, as on my first post on this subject, it was the most authentic handling boat I have ever built, a bit touchy in reverse, as too fast and you can get water onto the deck from the low stern, but if built and sealed well no problems from that.

If anyone wants to build one of these, I do have an original version of the kit sitting in my loft (with all fittings, and some). Cross my palm with £100 and be willing to pick it up and it is yours.

Because of my disabilities now, I won't be able to build it.

John

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[Guest]

I am not familar with this train. On which railway system does it run?

 

[Guest]

They go like a TRAIN

Peter

 

[Guest]

Wiesel motors

Back to one of the previous questions: What type of motors do you run?

I am to the point of installing the drive. Right now I have the original Graupner Jumbo 2000 motors. What is a current good replacement? I plan to buy two speed controls for the outboard motors and a servo activated switch (off/on) for the center motor.

There are so many out there and I don't think I need an expensive motor for running scale. Just need something to have the boat run good.

Lew