discussion how colors are different between primers

[Guest]

When you basecoat over primer you get different results depending on what color primer you use, and the color comes out different to what you thought and misleaded and puts a downer on your model before you even detail it. How can you do tests with each color when there are so many different colors and three main primer colors. If you apply more coats of basecoat to get the color you start covering detail on the model. Is it just down to experience?

 

[Guest]

I have never really thought about it. I suppose that each manufacture's colour range is designed to go with own primer for best results. However I have always used a spray can of white plastic primer from my local car spares shop and It has always seemed Ok to me.

 

[Alan 45]

That's easy don't prime it , I never prime I just make sure the kit is washed and dry and ive never had a problem


It's a marketing ploy to get you to buy primer , when you think how much primer you need to paint an entire model you'll find that you will run out of that quicker than any other paint so it makes it perfect sense to the model producers to tell you you have to prime the kit first

 

[tanktrack]

I tend to use a light primer under lighter base coats and darker with a dark base coat , also the colour of the plastic has an effect on colours to use as a dark plastic will darken a base coat when applied .

 

[Guest]

I'd say it's very much down to experience. You can test different primers and base coats easily on milk bottles etc, but the fact is that pigments are, on the whole, quite transparent, and they will be affected by the colour of the "ground" as artists call it. This, however, is to be seen as a weapon in our armoury, rather than a disadvantage. It allows us to make really subtle changes in hue and tone. Primer also offers a really good surface to key to, which is more important for acrylic users, and remember, you can always tint your primer with appropriate colour, if grey is not your bag!

 

[Guest]

I can't agree with what Alan says - primer is there to check the surface prior to putting the main colour down. Compared to actual paint, primer is very cheap & therefore not using it is a false economy.


As to the colours, if you're using something other than a neutral grey or white, pick a colour that compliments the basecoat - brown under green can give nice subtle variations of tone that look really good.

 

[Alan 45]

I can't agree with what Alan says - primer is there to check the surface prior to putting the main colour down. Compared to actual paint, primer is very cheap & therefore not using it is a false economy.
As to the colours, if you're using something other than a neutral grey or white, pick a colour that compliments the basecoat - brown under green can give nice subtle variations of tone that look really good.

Patrick how can you say it's wrong if ive proved it ?


It seems your brain washed to believe this stuff


Anyway it's personal choice , use it don't use all I know is I save myself money

 

[Guest]

First of all primer for most models is essential as most will have a filler of some kind. A primer will obliterate that filler. If you use top coat on bare plastic filler will shine through as the top coat is slightly translucent.


Using Vallejo primer (which comes in about 10 colours) which has stickability additive for plastic you will stand a better chance of the paint film remaining in tact when handling later for special finishes weathering and the use of tapes. Providing the primer has had a good time to cure then the top coats will cure better than they would on bare plastic.


A primer will also allow you to inspect for defects prior to finishing coats.


On primer colour think you have to take this case by case. Mostly I use a primer the similar colour to the main colour of the model. For yellows which is the most difficult white primer John above knows more on this subject than I. Dessert camouflage I have being using a darkish yellow Vallejo primer which does the job well. Greys on military aircraft l use Grey primer.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

Also add. I have been painting a platoon of soldiers recently. First couple I decided not to prime. Found that in the handling of them to paint on so many colours and so detailed a lot of the paint was just coming off. Primed the rest and I did not have any further problems. This was using acrylics enamel I am not familiar with.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

Patrick how can you say it's wrong if ive proved it ?
It seems your brain washed to believe this stuff


Anyway it's personal choice , use it don't use all I know is I save myself money

How have you "proved "it? It's a fact that primer exists to check for surface imperfections before painting. Technically primer isn't paint because it contains no pigment (coloured ones are therefore not primer!)


If you prefer not to prime & go directly to paint, good for you! But you must have eagle eyes to see that seams etc are properly blended after filling & sanding!


I'm certainly not brainwashed by anything, maybe I just prefer to use a 300ml £1 can of primer instead of 14ml of paint at £1.50 a tin...that's a no-brainer!

 

[Alan 45]

How have you "proved "it? It's a fact that primer exists to check for surface imperfections before painting. Technically primer isn't paint because it contains no pigment (coloured ones are therefore not primer!)
If you prefer not to prime & go directly to paint, good for you! But you must have eagle eyes to see that seams etc are properly blended after filling & sanding!


I'm certainly not brainwashed by anything, maybe I just prefer to use a 300ml £1 can of primer instead of 14ml of paint at £1.50 a tin...that's a no-brainer!

Ive proved it simply because builds ive made years ago still look the same now as they did back then ,


I must have eagle eyes then as ive never had a colour change against filler that hasn't been sorted with two coats just like the normal plastic has


All I say Patrick is give it a try don't just dismiss it out of hand because you've been told you have too prime by some outsider


Just wash the kit in a bit of soapy water leave it to dry completely and go straight to paint see if I'm wrong

 

[PaulTRose]

i always use a primer....its needed to provide a suitable surface for the paint to adhere to


i always use white auto primer ....4 quid for a big can, lasts me about 4 months on average


if you want to try paint/primer combinations to see what the effect is then buy a bag of disposable spoons to trial it on....cheap way of getting something made of smooth plastic...seen that done before

 

[Guest]

Ive proved it simply because builds ive made years ago still look the same now as they did back then ,
I must have eagle eyes then as ive never had a colour change against filler that hasn't been sorted with two coats just like the normal plastic has


All I say Patrick is give it a try don't just dismiss it out of hand because you've been told you have too prime by some outsider


Just wash the kit in a bit of soapy water leave it to dry completely and go straight to paint see if I'm wrong

I certainly don't want to get into a catfight with you over this Alan! Each to their own I say!


I've tried both ways, and sometimes I don't prime a kit, but IMHO they look better with primer than without.


So I'm not being influenced by anyone else, just using my own experience to guide me.

 

[Alan 45]

I certainly don't want to get into a catfight with you over this Alan! Each to their own I say!
I've tried both ways, and sometimes I don't prime a kit, but IMHO they look better with primer than without.


So I'm not being influenced by anyone else, just using my own experience to guide me.

Oh mate nor do I i was just giving an opinion mate and if I came over the wrong way it sertainly wasn't my intention


If you've tried it and prefer primer fare play to you you do what you thinks best


I was just putting out a different perspective to the generally known advice

 

[john i am]

I prime most of my kits as it seems to be the "norm" but on occasion I have gone straight to paint (mainly figures )and never encountered problems with paint not adhering or lifting etc.Laurie keep your sticky fingers off your figures by inserting a cocktail stick into the part were the sun doesn't shine

 

[aaron]

I test on plastic spoons and I prime everything.

 

[Guest]

Patrick how can you say it's wrong if ive proved it ?
It seems your brain washed to believe this stuff

There's one small snag with your somewhat rude response, at least with regard to many years of painting full-size aircraft.


The authorities produce(d) colour samples of how the paint should look, when produced by the paint companies and put into the tin, and modern model paint manufacturers work to the same parameters.


However, that paint normally goes/went over some type of primer, whether red/silver on between-wars fabric, or grey on RAF WWII aircraft, and, lately, chromate primers on modern aircraft.


This means that, if you don't use a primer, you are not replicating the real system, and your colours might not be an exact match.

 

[Alan 45]

There's one small snag with your somewhat rude response, at least with regard to many years of painting full-size aircraft.
The authorities produce(d) colour samples of how the paint should look, when produced by the paint companies and put into the tin, and modern model paint manufacturers work to the same parameters.


However, that paint normally goes/went over some type of primer, whether red/silver on between-wars fabric, or grey on RAF WWII aircraft, and, lately, chromate primers on modern aircraft.


This means that, if you don't use a primer, you are not replicating the real system, and your colours might not be an exact match.

No not rude Edgar , dyslexic, it means I can sometimes word things differently to how they are typed

 

[stona]

Primer serves at least two purposes, as some have noted above and I have a third! When the primer reveals some imperfection it also acts as a guide coat to help you get the finish right.


To come back to the original question, yes, the colour of your primer can alter the final coat. This can happen at full size as Edgar has noted above. Most people therefore use a neutral grey under most colours. For difficult to cover colours (like yellow) I use a white primer instead.


You don't have to prime plastic models before painting, but I have discovered over many years that I can achieve better results by doing so. If you're happy not to bother then that's fine too. Cost isn't really an issue as I use Halfords plastic primer, one 3000ml aerosol tin will do several models. Compared to the cost of the model and all the other stuff I end up buying the cost of primer is the least of my concerns


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

Cost isn't really an issue as I use Halfords plastic primer, one 3000ml aerosol tin will do several models. Compared to the cost of the model and all the other stuff I end up buying the cost of primer is the least of my concerns


Cheers


Steve

Wow Steve a 3000ml can must be some size!