discussion Lancaster Crew at the moment of "Bombs away"

[Guest]

The activity, being over enemy territory with flack, urge to get home safely, the same a few days later, and again and again. I wonder how I would have withstood this, a humongous attack on my sanity.

My uncle was a Lanc. pilot. I wished I had spoken to him more than an hour or two, when I was young and unthinking.

 

[eddiesolo]

Haunting sounds from a time and crew (maybe) long since gone. Nice find Steve.

Si

 

[Alan 45]

It certainly is a piece of history that shows how brave these young men were

 

[Guest]

I mentioned this Steve in Steve(Stona) article a few days ago. So right. Can only judge it from my stand point in not being in a Lancaster over enemy territory with dozens & dozens of Messerschmitts plus search lights all intent on blasting you out of the sky.

All of the accounts I have read give little clue to the enormity of stress placed on very young shoulders. The military writers of that time wrote with a stiff upper lip & cowardice or complaining of being stressed out was not on. Just read 3 books on the Falklands & the difference is remarkable. The writers talk of their fear, not wanting to be there & I wish I was home & get me out of this.

One of the problems in WW11 was that a tour of 25 or was it 30 spread over a period. It was not 25 raid days in a row. It was stretched over a period which increased the stress as I have always thought thinking about matters before the event is worse or at least equal to the event. It may have taken a week or more between raids. Some I have read got to their last raid before their tour was completed & had to wait weeks for that last bit. Then they went away to OTU or on leave knowing they would have to return for the 2nd & in some cases the third tour. Also knowing that it should have all ended on the first tour according to statistics. A lot has been written about the number of Americans having more in numbers towards the end of the WW11. But A single tour & they were home finished. RAF boys just plodded on which must have been as you say Steve insanity.

But bless them they did it & it was for us who now enjoy their sacrifice. As always I shall be watching Saturday Legion Night & at the Cenotaph on Sunday. A remembrance but also a celebration of what they gave for the rest of us.

Laurie

 

[flyjoe180]

Bear a thought also for the day time American bomber crews. Their chances of survival were something like 1 in 3, not good odds. The difference of course is that American crews went home after their tour of 25 (later 30) missions, whereas RAF Bomber Command crews were cycled through a rest period and reposted for more tours later, maybe after a stint at an operational conversion unit or flying school as instructors. German fighter pilots so far as I know, had no such thing as a tour of duty consisting of a number of sorties, they were in action throughout the war with only small rests in between postings. You only need to look at their air to air scores to see that.

The air war is a very interesting subject and from the comfort of our seats in modern times looking back, we can't even begin to imagine the stress, loss and fatigue that these blokes would have endured. Perhaps the most famous and visible test of endurance in the popular imagination is that of The Few during the Battle of Britain. But we should always remember those who also fought on all sides doing their jobs, in all manner of operations on land sea and air, many of whom did not survive to see the end of the war.

 

[Guest]

An interesting thought is the difference between what drove the Allied fighters and what drove the other side. As I understand from reading, Hitler, by his powerful rhetoric, had instilled in his subjects a firm belief that they were the super race, "ubermensch" and that it was proper to spread this view far and wide by force (supported by a bullet if anyone tried to argue against). On the other hand, the Allies were driven by a belief in freedom and democracy, and indeed by a rage at the effect this monstrous infection was having on so many people, especially the Jews. I think that sort of view drives people more than one based on hatred.

Of course, we British were pretty arrogant and driven by a sense of superiority during the Empire, but not, I think, so fiercely.

 

[flyjoe180]

This could get political if we're not careful and detract from the topic, but the British Empire was definitely no angel in it's day. Read some Boer accounts of the South African Boer War, or in fact any account from the 'other side' from almost anywhere where there was a British Imperial presence. As for motivations to fight, many didn't have political or freedom ideals. Some, Poles, Czechs, French etc would have wanted revenge, a chance to get back at the Germans and fight for the day that their countries were liberated. Others from all over the British Commonwealth went to war and did their job, played their part in what started as an adventure and turned into a struggle for survival. It's not uncommon to read accounts where people fought for their mates, not for any one ideal, monarch or political theory. As for the Germans, yes there would have been an element of superiority and Nazi indoctrination in some cases, but for the most part I think when you read biographies and personal histories, they were just doing their jobs too. Not all Germans were Nazis. I'm not sure when the world became aware of the extreme plight of European Jews, but they would have known there was anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany at the time. The extent of the atrocities committed against minority races and Russian POW were not fully known until late in the war.

 

[Guest]

I noticed the crew saying in the movie at 0:26 "Bombs fused". This implies that their fuses were not set for safety reasons until just before dropping. But what sort of fuses were they: time or, more probably, contact. If contact, they were probably protecting against someone hitting the contact device or whatever it was called, or vibration. I have a friend who was an armourer for Lincolns in the RAF during his National Service. I will ask him next time I meet him.

 

[Alan 45]

This could get political if we're not careful and detract from the topic, but the British Empire was definitely no angel in it's day. Read some Boer accounts of the South African Boer War, or in fact any account from the 'other side' from almost anywhere where there was a British Imperial presence. As for motivations to fight, many didn't have political or freedom ideals. Some, Poles, Czechs, French etc would have wanted revenge, a chance to get back at the Germans and fight for the day that their countries were liberated. Others from all over the British Commonwealth went to war and did their job, played their part in what started as an adventure and turned into a struggle for survival. It's not uncommon to read accounts where people fought for their mates, not for any one ideal, monarch or political theory. As for the Germans, yes there would have been an element of superiority and Nazi indoctrination in some cases, but for the most part I think when you read biographies and personal histories, they were just doing their jobs too. Not all Germans were Nazis. I'm not sure when the world became aware of the extreme plight of European Jews, but they would have known there was anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany at the time. The extent of the atrocities committed against minority races and Russian POW were not fully known until late in the war.

Spot on joe , having spoken to a few Germans at memorials I agree with you 100%