discussion luftwaffa camoflage

[Guest]

hi this first time im doind a german aircraft with airbrush its only third time ever done a model completely by airbrush , but ive done all the spraying apart from the cam which is like a faded motteled effect how do i do do this effect do i thin the paint more or differnt way the help would be appriciateted many thanks

 

[AlanG]

Thin the paint and spray at a low pressure. Do it lightly and build the effect up

 

[Guest]

many thanks so can i take thin more than usual?? if so to what mixture

 

[selrach]

Hi Batcode, When using the airbrush to do luftwaffe camo this is what I do to get realistic results. 1) Clean the surface of the model gently with dish soap and water to remove any grease. 2) Paint the base colour with 3-6 thin coats, using lacquer thinner. 3) Use the reorder forms you find in magazines as paper masks for the overspray and mottle effects. Trace a demarkation line with a ball point pen on the paper mask pressing hard on the paper. Tear the paper along the line. Attach the mask to the model with looped masking tape so that there is a gap between mask and model surface of about .5-1.0 mm. Place one or more masks on model. Use thin paint (consistancy of milk) and build up the paint along the torn mask edge with several passes. I like to quickly waggle the spray as I apply coats. Let paint dry a minute or two between coats. Start the spray off the model to avoid spatter. You can get overspray effect as crisp or diffuse as is desired by adjusting the gap between mask and model surface. To do mottle, use the pen to trace several holes on mask where you want them. Punch out the holes with tweezers or Xacto knife. Sand off any pucker around the hole edges. Place mask on model with looped masking tape. Spray thinned paint over mottle holes. Build up paint gradually using several coats. Peek under mask between coats to see how you are doing. With practice, you can produce exact mottle patterns as seen in photos of actual plane this way even at 1/72 scale. Good luck!

Selrach

 

[stona]

Thre's nothing inherently wrong with masks but you can do this freehand.

You didn't say what scale you have built this in but certainly at 1/48 or larger freehand will look best. The original mottle was applied freehand after all.

I do thin my paint slightly more than usual and,if I remember,I do reduce my pressure. I tend to spray at a higher pressure than many members here but you have to find what works for you. You have to get in close to the model and,as Allyne and Selrach said, build the mottle up gradually. It varied a lot on the real aircraft so unless you are working to photographic references you can be quite artisitic,just do what looks good to you. You may want to apply a very highly thinned overspray of the base colour (usually RLM 65 or 76) on top of your mottle just to blend it all in. I often overspray a highly thinned grey colour to weather and blend the decals and provide a bit of wear which will have the same effect.

Cheers

Steve

 

[selrach]

Hi Stona, Being a bit of a stickler about German camo myself and comparing what is seen in photographs to what the best of freehanders can do at modelling contests I would have to disagree that freehand air brushing necessarily get the best results, whether one is a novice or not. The problem that I see is one of overspray. Freehand tends to produce too much overspray in many cases. In photos you often see areas of very limited overspray on German aircraft that is easily controllable with masks--the secret of the masks is the use of rough, torn edges that give diffuse edges. Most people use hard edged masks which do not produce realistic results. Another problem with free handing is spatter. The moment you engage the air brush a bit of spattering often tends to occur often at most inopportune times, an effect that is not easily seen in posted photographs of the model. Photography covers a multitude of sins! With masks perfect atomisation of mottling is possible. There are definitely situations where freehanding may be preferred especially if more diffuse effects are desired. However, I have yet to see areas or mottles of tight overspray (1/48 and smaller) as per actual aircraft, being reproduced freehand by anyone, let alone a novice modeller. With masking, these kind of effects are easily achieved indeed.

Selrach

 

[Ian M]

If you are getting splatter when you start to spray you are doing it wrong. The first and last thing to come out of the nozzle is air. Any way, enough about that.

I like the sound of the masking tips you have given Selrach, any chance of an example or two, I would like to see how it looks.

Ian M

 

[stona]

We'll agree to disagree. I've seen some fantastic representations done freehand. Even I get better results that way and I don't consider myself an expert!

As Ian said if you've got splatter or large overspray you need to look at your technique. I can easily spray a pencil line with my airbrush(es) which is fine for a camouflage demarcation which was originally sprayed freehand.

Many Luftwaffe mottles are quite diffuse,particularly late in the war. This is often complicated by a further overspray,often of highly thinned RLM 02,applied by the units. Fw 190s engaged in low level operations did this a lot for example,but they weren't the only ones. These effects are impossible to replicate except freehand.

How would you do something like this (original war time paint) ?

Except freehand

Any attempt to mask that won't look convincing.

The same applies to this Italian "smoke ring" camouflage.

It's not just axis aircraft either. This is impossible with masks.

How could these have been done with masks?

As I said I don't have any problem with using masks but they will limit the possibilities of just what can be done.

Cheers

Steve

 

[selrach]

Hi Ian, Thanks for your comments. There are a couple of examples of my work done with masks (FW 190 D9 and Bf 109 K4) that are posted in the aircraft photos section of this website in 2009. Both examples are 1/72. My experience has been, even at prominent model contests, there is no one I have seen that can recreate the patterns such as I have done in freehand in 1/72 and even for the most part in 1/48. The examples I see invariably have paint schemes where individual droplets of paint, though small, that can be discerned. Photos tend to cover up these problems. In contests I have found that construction, including smooth finish is emphasised, not graphical realism which I am most interested in. If there is someone who can do freehand like this at this scale, he is rare indeed and has ability well beyond what I can manage. I would be glad to discuss some the techniques I use in detail. Most of the pains taking is done in mask preparation. Currently I am working on a Ta 152 in 1/48 which I want to post when I am done.

Selrach

 

[Ian M]

No need for further explaining after all, its not rocket science .

If you do a lot of German mottles, are you aware that you can actually by a PE mask with all the faffing around done for you. Being in thin brass, the conform to the shape of the aircraft, and are stiff enough that you can hold them away from the subject. The further away, the softer the edge.

I'm not into German stuff so my biggest problem is if it's a pattern A or B LOL.

Ian M

 

[selrach]

Hi Steve, Thanks for these beautiful examples you have posted. I take it that the models are all at least 1/48. I am truly incredulous that anyone could do these very crisply at 1/72, especially the Natter, but I am willing to be convinced. In any case very few people in my experience are going to have the ability to produce these schemes even at 1/48. Photography, as I have mentioned obscures a lot of problems that become apparent when viewing in person. The Macchi, Thunderbolt and K-4 in my experience could all be done with careful construction of masks, with the K-4 being the easiest. For the Macchi, rings can readily be traced out on paper and carefully torn to leave a gap of desired width. The inner part of the ring might have to be connected to the outer part with glued segments of wire or thin strips of tape. Small touch ups with brush or pastel pencil can be done later. The basic shapes of the dark green of the P 47 could be applied through a mask with edges counter shaded with very thin coats of the gray later with overspray controlled with other hand held masks or by freehand. The winter camo of the 190 would probably be best done freehand I agree, but one could easily make a collection of stripes of various configurations with masks and spray these a few at a time until the desired effect is achieved. The picture here looks to be of a 1/72 model and is not detailed enough to really see how well atomised the stripes actually are. When masks are used you can use a higher spray pressure which facilitates paint atomisation. With this technique most all the tedium goes into creating the masks. However, as I must concede, good luck creating masks for one of those serpentine patterns!

Regards,

Selrach

 

[stona]

I see invariably have paint schemes where individual droplets of paint, though small, that can be discerned. Photos tend to cover up these problems. Selrach

Withs all due respect we're going to have to disagree again. If I can do this anyone can.

I don't think the close up is hiding anything.

Here's the model.

Cheers

Steve

 

[selrach]

Hi Ian, I have not had good luck with brass or vinyl masks. The problem is that the edges are too abrupt. With paper, you can create a rough edge which helps to fuzz out the paint spray. This effect however can be finessed as needed.

Selrach

 

[stona]

I do mostly 1/32 scale though I do venture into smaller scales from time to time,even 1/72

I do agree that something like that natter camouflage would be very difficult to replicate accurately in 1/72,particularly as the aircraft (or missile!) was very small at 1:1. I reckon it would be doable but not as accurately as I managed on the larger (1/32) model. I'm not sure that masks could give a better result though.

Please don't think I have some inbuilt distaste for masks! I certainly think they have a place. I do think that at 1/48 or larger many of the very subtle effects created by the original freehand sprayers are difficult to replicate. I've done the fairly simple mottle typical of a mid war Fw 190 A freehand in 1/72 recently,which amounts to nothing more than a few blobs really,and was quite happy with the result. Masks always seem to me to give too hard an edge but that may say more about me than the masks.

As the saying goes,there are many ways of skinning a cat. I don't think anyone is right or wrong

Cheers

Steve

 

[selrach]

Looks good Steve. What scale are we looking at here?

Selrach

 

[selrach]

Steve, Thanks for your comments, observations and admonitions. I do not pretend to know all about any technique. I am open to any and all methods. My use of masks is in essence an admission of my inability to consistently get the effects I want with the free hand airbrush at 1/48 and smaller. In my view free hand is the way to go if you can get what you want out of it. I have found that torn-edged masks can really be helpful in certain situations and perhaps others may find this method of use as well.

P.S. Are all the previous photos of your models as well? They are marvelous! What scales?

Selrach

 

[Ian M]

Hi Ian, I have not had good luck with brass or vinyl masks. The problem is that the edges are too abrupt. With paper, you can create a rough edge which helps to fuzz out the paint spray. This effect however can be finessed as needed.Selrach

To get a softer edge, move the mask away from the subject.

Ian M

 

[selrach]

Thanks Ian, I have found PE masks to be too hard edged to get the effect I am looking for. Paper works much better for me, but the paper stock can neither be too thick or too thin. Magazine order forms seem to be just about right.

Selrach

 

[stona]

P.S. Are all the previous photos of your models as well? They are marvelous! What scales?

Selrach

They are,glad you like them. Those are mostly 1/32.

I agree that these effects are more doable at 1/32 and 1/48 type sizes. They can be done at 1/72 with a bit of practice. Just to show that my eyes still just about work at 1/72 here's a "damaged", "what if",spuriously marked, Fw 190 from a 1/72 scale diorama I built a while back. The camouflage is painted freehand.

Heres a Bf 109 from the same diorama (looking a bit out of place!). It's also obviously 1/72 and that unusual camouflage with RLM 77/82 and a mottle comprised almost of dots is based on a real aircraft.

Cheers

Steve

 

[selrach]

Very nice Steve, I think you did and excellent job on these, probably better than 99 percent of people out there. At 1/48 and smaller more diffuse effects are within reach free hand but tighter over spray areas that are seen in photographs are readily achieved for smaller scales with scribed and torn masks, but not practically achievable free hand. I guess it depends on how close one wants to come to reproducing at scale what is seen in photographs. There are also fine mist and diffusion effects that be achieved with certain special mask techniques at 1/48 and 1/72 that I have never seen reproduced, at least with fine atomisation. I will try to demonstrate this on model I am presently working on.

Selrach