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I only ever use a brush when painting my models and I have virtually given up with acrylics. I find enamels thinned with turps gives a once over finish first time, every time. Where as acrylics are very hit and miss when applied with a brush.
Having said all that I do realise that folks who use an airbrush prefer acrylics....to each his own, I guess.
This debate is a bit like the colour of German armour.....Never ending. LOL!
Cheers,
Ron
Having said all that I do realise that folks who use an airbrush prefer acrylics....to each his own, I guess.
This debate is a bit like the colour of German armour.....Never ending. LOL!
Cheers,
Ron
G
Definitly enamels for hand-brushing, unless you're using something more exotic like Vallejo or Lifecolour. Patrick
G
Cheers gents
G
When I use Enamels for Brushing I found that thinning with Winsor & Newton 'Sansodor' (Low Odour Solvent) gave a smoother finish as I found it evaporates slightly slower than Turps, White Spirits etc.
I also use Sansodor when Airbrushing with White Ensign Enamels.
I also use Sansodor when Airbrushing with White Ensign Enamels.
Second above-handbrush enamels.
Slightly hijacking thread I literally inherited a large bottle of "sansodor" when my mum,who painted, passed away. She would have liked me to use it so I tried various things with it! Caledonia is correct about its properties. I now use it for doing dot matrix filters with oil paints, it is a good solvent but not too hot or fast. I don't often use this technique but when I do, for example on my "black" P-47, it is my solvent of choice.
I've no idea what it costs but I doubt that it is cheap! Always a consideration of course.
Cheers and apologies for the hijack!
Steve
Slightly hijacking thread I literally inherited a large bottle of "sansodor" when my mum,who painted, passed away. She would have liked me to use it so I tried various things with it! Caledonia is correct about its properties. I now use it for doing dot matrix filters with oil paints, it is a good solvent but not too hot or fast. I don't often use this technique but when I do, for example on my "black" P-47, it is my solvent of choice.
I've no idea what it costs but I doubt that it is cheap! Always a consideration of course.
Cheers and apologies for the hijack!
Steve
G
Steve,\ said:
I think it costs around £3 for 75mL, which lasts ages if you are just thinning 14 mL paint cans. WH Smith usually stock it and Art Shops of course. Derek
G
OK, here's something to think about, seeing the discussion is about enamel or acylic paints. This is the way I see it after about forty years of modelling, others will differ from these statements, but I'm sticking by what I write here.
Enamel paints have been around for at least a century or more, in that time they have managed to grind the paint particles to millionths of a millimetre, in other words it's ground into very fine dust particles.
So if your brushing or spraying, then a very thin coat will go a long way and ALL details on the model will still be left showing, ie, rivets, door outlines and such very important details, will be very crisp and clear. OH, if you have made a stuff up, then it will show for all the world to see and criticize, you got to make sure that your modelling techniques are good tried and true methods, or your going to learn real fast. It dries out to a very thin coat and if you use the right carriers, ie, turps or such, then as it dries, the surface stretches and you can get an excellent gloss finish to it.
You can use a large variety of thinners or carriers, to help the enamel cover properly, so a good all round paint to be used wisely.
Now acrylic paints, these are relatively new compared to enamel, so what were they originally made for, for appling to large areas for very quick coverage and generally used for house painting, walls and ceilings come to mind. It had one advantage over enamel paint, you could wash the brush out in water. A big down side to acrylic was that it was made VERY THICK, so that the coverage was quick. This means that the pigment is made very course and the carrier has to be thick, for it to achieve this one hit coverage.
As for getting a good gloss finish on acrylics, this is nearly impossible with just a coverage of paint, be it spraying or brushing. You now have to go buy more polishing crud, just to achieve a reasonable gloss finish. So what happens now to the very sharp crisp detail your trying to achieve, it's now covered under this crud and no amount of polishing or extra work will bring it back.
So, modellers decided to try and use this stuff, but they are behind the 8 ball, to start with, think what the pigment is ground to in enamel, now lets look at acrylic, it's made about 10 to 20 times bigger. OK, now what happens when you use acrylic on a model, it's SO THICK, that what ever detail you are trying to show, will now be covered over by this dismal $hite or excuse for model paint.
Choice is yours alone to make, but try and remember what has been written in the above postings, there seems to be a consensus that enamels are the way to go, so learn how to use them properly and you'll be glad you decided to stick with the tried and true method of painting.
Enamel paints have been around for at least a century or more, in that time they have managed to grind the paint particles to millionths of a millimetre, in other words it's ground into very fine dust particles.
So if your brushing or spraying, then a very thin coat will go a long way and ALL details on the model will still be left showing, ie, rivets, door outlines and such very important details, will be very crisp and clear. OH, if you have made a stuff up, then it will show for all the world to see and criticize, you got to make sure that your modelling techniques are good tried and true methods, or your going to learn real fast. It dries out to a very thin coat and if you use the right carriers, ie, turps or such, then as it dries, the surface stretches and you can get an excellent gloss finish to it.
You can use a large variety of thinners or carriers, to help the enamel cover properly, so a good all round paint to be used wisely.
Now acrylic paints, these are relatively new compared to enamel, so what were they originally made for, for appling to large areas for very quick coverage and generally used for house painting, walls and ceilings come to mind. It had one advantage over enamel paint, you could wash the brush out in water. A big down side to acrylic was that it was made VERY THICK, so that the coverage was quick. This means that the pigment is made very course and the carrier has to be thick, for it to achieve this one hit coverage.
As for getting a good gloss finish on acrylics, this is nearly impossible with just a coverage of paint, be it spraying or brushing. You now have to go buy more polishing crud, just to achieve a reasonable gloss finish. So what happens now to the very sharp crisp detail your trying to achieve, it's now covered under this crud and no amount of polishing or extra work will bring it back.
So, modellers decided to try and use this stuff, but they are behind the 8 ball, to start with, think what the pigment is ground to in enamel, now lets look at acrylic, it's made about 10 to 20 times bigger. OK, now what happens when you use acrylic on a model, it's SO THICK, that what ever detail you are trying to show, will now be covered over by this dismal $hite or excuse for model paint.
Choice is yours alone to make, but try and remember what has been written in the above postings, there seems to be a consensus that enamels are the way to go, so learn how to use them properly and you'll be glad you decided to stick with the tried and true method of painting.
G
is this post comes in i am testing with enamels, i have here some revell and humbror paints.
I learned from my first mistake, i have not tinned down silver enamel paint for my mig 21. Model looks ok from distance, but up close there are tons of issues.
I am testing on airfix TBD-1 Devastator since it has lots of surface details, rivets and stuff.
I tinned down paint at 50/50 with bog standard generic white spirit, result, amazing. Even if i will need second, it will still look great.
Also realized that i needed softer brush, i have one now, and it does make great difference.
your comments hold water radish
I learned from my first mistake, i have not tinned down silver enamel paint for my mig 21. Model looks ok from distance, but up close there are tons of issues.
I am testing on airfix TBD-1 Devastator since it has lots of surface details, rivets and stuff.
I tinned down paint at 50/50 with bog standard generic white spirit, result, amazing. Even if i will need second, it will still look great.
Also realized that i needed softer brush, i have one now, and it does make great difference.
your comments hold water radish
G
I'm disappointed that you have such a low opinion of modern acrylic paint, radish & I think that you should tone-down your ranting a little. You way have strong views but I don't think this is the forum to give them free rein-let's not forget that younger modellers can see both what we say & how we put it. I do think that you're somewhat mistaken however. Acrylics that are specifically designed for modelling are made to much the same standard as enamels & although I've not been to any shows, I can't recall seeing any (military) magazine features where models have been done exclusively in enamels. On another point, it only helps our hobby if more people get into it, so the greater ease of using acrylics can only be a good thing-as one gets experience, they can progress to enamels if desired. That's just my humble opinion as a keen amateur. Patrick
I mainly use enamels and am happy with the results.
I know nothing about the technicalities of either paint formulation.....
But this much I do know, I have never read such a one sided tirade of quite disgusting language as I've just had the misfortune to read this morning from radish1us....If that is the best this person can contribute to what is usually a well balanced debate then perhaps his comments and attitude are best left where they belong.
I will leave the reader to guess where!
Ron
I know nothing about the technicalities of either paint formulation.....
But this much I do know, I have never read such a one sided tirade of quite disgusting language as I've just had the misfortune to read this morning from radish1us....If that is the best this person can contribute to what is usually a well balanced debate then perhaps his comments and attitude are best left where they belong.
I will leave the reader to guess where!
Ron
I agree wholly with patrick and ron regarding radish's furious rant,maybe he does prefer enamels but youve got to keep it balanced,a lot of people prefer acrylics over enamels too.Personally i think its horses for courses,if you like one over the other fine but that doesnt mean that everyone who doesnt is wrong.Ive used both in my time and can honestly say each has its good and bad points,but at the moment im using more acrylics,as ive had better results spraying with them.Lastly youve only got to look at some of the models on here to realise you can get a superb finish with acrylics even if youre not bothered about winning a show (and i think the majority of us on here just model cause we ENJOY IT ,isnt that what its all about ? so chill out radish) yours calmly tony:neutral:
G
I have to agree with spanner abour radish1us language and tone it's not necessary or required. I use both acrylic and enamol on my kits and as i use an airbrush i find i get my best results with acrylics, my two cents worth are this try both out on an old kit then decide which one you like the best no one can fault you for that. As for the comment on people who use acrylics use it to cover up mediocre modeling.... well i've seen some beautifully built and painted kits here from folks who use acrylic paint, if thats how radsh1us feels then thats his opinion but out of respect to the may fine modellers onthis forum your opinions are best kept to yourself mate you are way out of line
G
I read this with interest as I`m new to modelling again after a 20 year break , personally now I have many interests in modelling be it cars , bikes , military stuff etc , at the moment I`m making military stuff and finding acrylics great for this , when making a car or bike I like to finnish the bodywork with a gloss enamel spray , In my opinion there is room for both paints , whats wrong with combining both acrylics and enamels on the same model , I do.
Merry Christmas all
Richy.
Merry Christmas all
Richy.
G
OK Gents, just to let you know that this thread is now being watched closely. We have always prided ourselves at Scale Models that we provide an open, honest friendly and welcoming environment where any member can feel free to express their opinions to all who will accept them in a receptive and open minded manner.
Any overly opinionated posts that are rude or impolite in any way will not be tolerated and will of course be removed so let’s ensure that we do not head in this direction with this thread.
I think most of us are open minded enough to realise that there are uses of both types of paint and I can’t remember the last model I made when I only used one type. I also think it is widely accepted that modern modelling acrylic paints are significantly thinner than enamels and so tend to allow greater detail to show through the paint. I have generally tended to think of acrylics as being best suited to matt finishes and enamels better suited to gloss finishes but this is by no means a rule and I regularly use both types of paint for both purposes. My current project uses matt enamels and acrylic gloss for varying reasons, each respecting the different paint properties for the effect I am trying to achieve.
Another point of interest is that model magazines such as Tamiya Modelling International showcase standards of modelling that most of us could only ever dream of achieving and the modellers there very rarely use anything other than acrylics. There has to be a good reason for this.
Any overly opinionated posts that are rude or impolite in any way will not be tolerated and will of course be removed so let’s ensure that we do not head in this direction with this thread.
I think most of us are open minded enough to realise that there are uses of both types of paint and I can’t remember the last model I made when I only used one type. I also think it is widely accepted that modern modelling acrylic paints are significantly thinner than enamels and so tend to allow greater detail to show through the paint. I have generally tended to think of acrylics as being best suited to matt finishes and enamels better suited to gloss finishes but this is by no means a rule and I regularly use both types of paint for both purposes. My current project uses matt enamels and acrylic gloss for varying reasons, each respecting the different paint properties for the effect I am trying to achieve.
Another point of interest is that model magazines such as Tamiya Modelling International showcase standards of modelling that most of us could only ever dream of achieving and the modellers there very rarely use anything other than acrylics. There has to be a good reason for this.
:strong:
I don't know of any builder who does not use both whether it be acrylic gloss, flat enamel or some other weird stuff like floor polish! Wait-maybe a thread needs to be started about what other substances are used for God only knows why by obsessed rabid modelers! Thanks for the response Richard. Jeff
I don't know of any builder who does not use both whether it be acrylic gloss, flat enamel or some other weird stuff like floor polish! Wait-maybe a thread needs to be started about what other substances are used for God only knows why by obsessed rabid modelers! Thanks for the response Richard. Jeff
I had no intention of adding any more to this thread but having read Bunkerbarge's post I will have my final say...please.
I fully agree that everyone has a right to say what they think about any subject raised on this most friendliest of forums, as long as it is put over in a reasoned and calm way.
However when opinions are express with the addition of tirade of foul language the writer has to expect a reaction, which he got and deserved.
Recently on here members were reminded, rightly so, of the standards expected and told to be careful and not use asterixes, abreviations or gently suggestive comments. Yet this person was allowed to post, complete with all the open abuse and foul language he could muster.
Soap box burned!!
Ron
I fully agree that everyone has a right to say what they think about any subject raised on this most friendliest of forums, as long as it is put over in a reasoned and calm way.
However when opinions are express with the addition of tirade of foul language the writer has to expect a reaction, which he got and deserved.
Recently on here members were reminded, rightly so, of the standards expected and told to be careful and not use asterixes, abreviations or gently suggestive comments. Yet this person was allowed to post, complete with all the open abuse and foul language he could muster.
Soap box burned!!
Ron
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