discussion Thinking of setting up a custom decals business

[Guest]

Hi everyone!

I'm currently looking at spending a couple of grand on kit to start printing custom waterslide decals (ALPS replacement), and want to try and gather some information about what people would like - especially bespoke or modified to job (eg differing registration numbers for aircraft, nose art, tank markings, and spare stenciling like 'no step's for wing surfaces).

I'm trying to get the cost (to customer) down to around £12-£15 for an A4 sheet of transfers, not including any art fees (which only really apply for the first copy).

I'd appreciate any ideas people throw my way - especially if you can't find it elsewhere!

Not sure if this particular forum is the right place for this post!

Cheers all!

 

[Guest]

just a quick mention.

not many decal companies do custom work purley because the amount of research involved. modeler are picky, they will want the exact right size with the exact same colour as the aircraft/boat what ever.

so generaly companies that do do custom work charge over £100 as it takes a hell of a lot of work and a few months to get it all right.

a nice idea, let us know how you plan to research the subjects...etc

 

[Guest]

For historical (real-world) scale models I think the easiest option is to provide like-for-like replacement decals - ie renumbered registration numbers for WWII aircraft, alternate squadron markings etc. Basically, personal modifications to an existing set of decals.

For this I'd require a client to either send me the decal sheet they want a modification of, or a high-resolution scan. I'd return the original sheet as soon as I'd scanned it. Note that the largest size we can deal with for now is A4. Depending on the modifications required, I may not need to charge for much art time. In many cases the only adaptation required is an adjustment to compensate for the colour of the backing paper of the transfers or source material being scanned.

To match an authentic colour is very difficult - everyone's eye as far as colour is concerned is slightly different, and the laser printing method I'm planning on using won't ever match exactly a single-pigment paint or dye. If colour match is an important issue to the client, I'll be able to provide a swatch sample of what I think the match is (and if they've provided me a swatch it should be reasonable).

For a consistent finish on the model, a mix of transfers for the same use shouldn't be used - if you're replacing a numeral on the registration number, you should replace them ALL. Basically ensure that the transfers used of any particular purpose / colour are from the same print.

 

[Guest]

What are the specs of the ALPS replacement printer? Is it possible to print onto clear self adhesive vinyl too. If so I think it'd be great for printing decals for Radio Control cars and aircraft which would be tougher than waterslide decals too.

I think these would be popular and if you could do an A4 sheet for a Fiver or so could probably appeal to kids who want to modify their radio-control super X 2000 IC hotshot whatever car...

Possibly you could do batches of custom car graphics and make these a regular seller on an ebay shop? and just do a few special jobs with custom decals. I don't think there would be much demand for custom decals for scale models as the people who want to change their model from the stock decal sheet will probably be able to make their own decals using inkjet printers and waterslide printer paper or letraset etc.

Also it'd be great to find a printer that had the possibility of being able to print with silver and gold ink! If the printer could do it - it'd be great to be able to make custom dry transfer lettering too...as well as waterslide transfers.

An example of the kind of thing I'm after personally - some decals for my 16mm rolling stock and a few no smoking decals for the glazing for starters. Probably would only need smaller sheets though and lots of the same transfer clustered together. Rather than £15 for a whole A4 sheet.

I'd create my own artwork though - would just need it printed in red, white and black.

 

[Guest]

I'm really not sure about printing to the self-adhesive vinyl directly. For safety's sake I'll say 'no' for now, but will look into it. Also not sure about the dry transfer lettering. Frankly I prefer waterslides with microsol / microset, so I've not considered it much.

The glazing transfers - are you looking for the fancy 'double-sided' ones (which I'm not sure the toner is opaque enough to pull off)? If I go through with getting the kit, this is the sort of thing I can try (without charge) and let you know if it works before you order.

The service I want to provide is pretty personal - although I can't really travel the breadth and width of the country doing research for things. That said, I am pretty close to the Midland Railway Centre at Ripley which I believe has a good reference library and should be pretty willing to help with certain things.

I could do smaller batches of decals cheaper than the £15 per A4 but I'd still have to print a sheet that size, so if you want few decals, your order would be batched up for printing with other small orders and this would a slight delay. If you can think of extra things you could order at the same time (eg wall posters, station floor markings, signage etc) then these can all be merged for printing on the same sheet.

 

[Guest]

sounds like your business venture is a good one, i recently watched some grafitti decals go for silly money on ebay, these were for an N scale model railway so were small, they cant have been bigger than 60mm x 30mm....

it seems there is the need so good luck with your business venture !

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure what the others here think but the cost of providing the custom artwork for the decals would be very expensive as it would take a considerable time to design and develop the cad files for each decal sheet, however once you have that artwork you could probably make regular sales as long as it's for a reasonably popular model or generic railway posters, advertising etc. If you also design the artwork in full size, you could also easily rescale the decals when you print them.

 

[Guest]

I'm not too worried about producing artwork - like you note, it's pretty much a one-off cost for a particular theme. The nice thing about the method used I'm looking it is it can print straight from photoshop, a package I'm *very* familiar with from my main job. And yes, a lot of things can be scaled pretty easily.

 

[Guest]

First off, as far as I'm concerned, this is the right place for this posting.

A couple of questions now regarding these decals.

Is the printer an ALPS MD 5000?

Or an OKI DP 5000?

Or a Citizen Printiva 700 series?

Where is it, that you are situated at, I've tried looking for Ripley in the UK, but the atlas I have does not show it, what is this Ripley place close to?

What drawing program are you running this printer with?

The reason that I'm asking is that I know of a couple of people in the UK that require this type of service, art work would be done by them, just need a dry sublimation printer, that's all.

regards radish

 

[Guest]

The printers involved are OKI 3200 laser printers using sublimation toner provided by Automatic Transfer Inc. The MD5000 / MD1000 'ALPS' printers (including OKI / Citizen rebadges) are now suffering from severe shortages in consumables. The toner manufacturer provides print profiles for photoshop, so that'll be the main package I work with (although I can convert many file types).

Ripley's on the Nottinghamshire / Derbyshire border, and I'm in Nottingham itself. For the railway centre itself (worth a visit) look at http://www.midlandrailwaycentre.co.uk

To be very clear - I have not purchased these printers yet (they're quite expensive) and I'm just gathering information. I have been putting out feelers to see if anyone else has evaluated the use of this toner, and I've heard good things back. I will of course update this thread as news develops. In short, it's looking like the technology is up to the job, but it remains to be seen if I can get enough prospective business to make it worth the outlay.

 

[Guest]

One thing that would be usefull would be a set of Tank Registration numbers made from a photograph - so sets of 0-9 made in a particular scale. The letters would need to be vector with the font matched up to a photo of an actual tank.

If you could do those from a photograph in red and white, that could be useful.

Also private owner wagon lettering and tare weights, wagon numbers etc for freight rolling stock...

With any decals representing advertisements and company names, would this pose a problem with copyright and use of registered trademarks though?

 

[Guest]

The short answer is no. Breach of trademark / copyright is usually enforced only where the trademark is being used in a similar field, or in a manner which directly impacts the business for which that mark is used. For use on a model railway etc, you can generally assume that no action would be involved, especially on a small hobbyist scale. Advertising reduced to model size is still advertising (and not harmful to the company in any way). That said, if the mark is used in a manner the holder deems 'inappropriate' the mark can be protected more vehemently. This was allegedly the case with volkswagen and the recent 'transformers' film. VW didn't want their products being associated with war machines. The black beetles that the SS used to drive around in obviously don't count. ;-) Basically though, it's not that much of a concern, the worst that can realistically happen is I'd get a Cease and Desist order for trading that image.

The tank registration marks etc. are no problem at all. I'd need one roughly square (to the number) photo to a number to get a judgment of angles for corners etc and general shape, and from that I can extrapolate the style to other numbers for which I don't have such a good source.

 

[Guest]

Hi again, what drawing program is it that you are going to use?

regards radish

 

[Guest]

Photoshop for the most part, but I've also got Corel and a few others.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for that.

 

[Guest]

I was directed to this post by radish1us – thanks radish!

Well winterdyne, as someone has already mentioned very few companies do custom decal work, and those that do, charge an extortionate price! I live in Staffordshire, not far from you, and have e-mailed and telephoned those few companies. One would only do large batch run-offs, which would have cost me a 3 figure sum!

I think there is a big need here in the UK for what you are offering, but having said that, you business would not perhaps be viable if you relied on doing custom decals only. What I mean by that, is the fact that certain model makers like the steam locomotive buffs who can take several years (often a lifetime) to complete a model, would only want one set of decals during that time.

I’m not into steam locos or kit building and the sort of decal I am looking for would have to be custom printed. Here is an example of the sort of thing I am looking for -

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/Asperula/potwheelL.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/Asperula/potfrontleftL.jpg

This is an example of the sort of work I would need, but the artwork, layout and dimensions would of course be done by me.

I have an active website - www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk and forum -http://forum.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/ where other members would perhaps from time to time require similar custom decal printing at an acceptable price

Have you, or are you, also putting out “feelers” in similar model and hobbies forums and groups?

If you did start up your business and I was a satisfied customer, (which I’m sure I would be!) I would put up a link to your site on my website.

I wish you all the best in this enterprise and hope you are successful with it!

I will look in here regularly!

Best wishes,

jraah.

 

[Guest]

The spokes don't look too hard, nor do the axles. The wheel rim itself I think would be difficult to cut by hand (but possible). I can't do kiss-cut decals (you'll have to trim them yourself). But yeah, if you're doing the art I'd be able (and happy to) provide the print service.

By the way - with a light cream back colour, you could print decals like that on a standard inkjet printer.

I note the gold on the axles appears to be metallic - to get this done you're gonna need an alps or similar setup - I won't be able to do that unfortunately.

I'm putting out feelers all over the place - but I'm sortof concentrating on the sci-fi end of things as that's my bag, so I'm familiar with what's commonly needed. I'm always happy to hear more ideas though!

 

[Guest]

The spokes don't look too hard, nor do the axles. The wheel rim itself I think would be difficult to cut by hand (but possible). I can't do kiss-cut decals (you'll have to trim them yourself). But yeah, if you're doing the art I'd be able (and happy to) provide the print service.

Yes, it would be difficult to cut the whole diameter of the wheel rim by hand, and even more difficult to apply the decal in one piece – so the way it is usually done is to print it, cut it and apply it, in 4 separate quarters.

By the way - with a light cream back colour, you could print decals like that on a standard inkjet printer.

You are correct to a degree, but I have only included this as an example, and an extreme one at that! This model would be the Daddy of all models regarding the decal work, and not something I would tackle for quite a while yet! The decals I would want at this point in time would be less ornate and would be pale blue/black to go on a deep red background and dark blue/black on a sky blue background. Metallic gold or silver; I won’t be needing!

Thank you for your prompt reply and interest.

Regards,

jraah

 

[Guest]

Just a thought, it's a bit dependent on whether or not the printer will be able to print on vinyl or not, but have you thought about the possibility of a vinyl cutter too? I'd really appreciate the ability to have paint masks cut from my own drawings and combined with the ability to create custom stickers would be a pretty handy one stop shop!

 

[Guest]

When you set this up, will we be able to send you design, or pictures of waht we want to stick on our kits? For example, I want to make a tornado F3 dam buster sqd' but no markings for it (as far as i know), so I could send you design or picture of it and you send me the product? Or will you work you way through all the RAF, army, navy units ect and making markings for ships, tnaks aircraft?