discussion Which Bronze Green!?!?

[AlexBB]

I am looking at building the new Airfix Stalwart and thought I would test out the Bronze Greens I have to see;
1 - Is there much difference between the paint manufacturers?
2 - How each one dries? Matt / Semi Satin etc...
3 - Which one I like best?

When I built the Airfix Ferret I used the AK Real Color but I felt it came out a bit too dark and dried with quite a satin finish, this was not really an issue as the model got a matt clear anyway but I have never had the opportunity to compare a paint sample against a real vehicle. I recognise that 'real things' may have a lot of variation in shade and matt paints often 'sun fade' quite quickly.

Just wondering what other peoples thoughts are about which paint might be the closest match to British Army Bronze Green?

Here are some pics of the test cards of the 3 paints I have tested..

Pics taken under a 6500K (Daylight) LED light using an iPhone so I recognise not the best camera but is all I have.

 

[Miko]

It's an impossible task to paint your kit in an 'accurate' shade, it depends on too many variables, such as . . .

Who manufactured the paint and which batch was used, how it was applied, was sprayed or using a roller or brush etc. this applies to the real thing and how you paint your model, how you thin, the primers coat, all have a bearing on the outcome.

Then are you modelling straight out of the factory or after it's been exposed to the elements for an unspecified amount of time, long term cold and wet or sun scorched and dry will have different effects on colour. Scale effect being another, how you see colour through more of the atmosphere compared to an equivalent distance to your model, complicated and incalculable. So it could be argued all of your paint shades would be suitable if the conditions are right

I admire those who pursue accuracy and detail to such a high degree, but to me it's just a stress in a hobby that's supposed to be fun, it's like chasing the impossible. This is why I build a lot of 'what if' models, because I get to decide if they are 100% accurate!

Although, posts like this one often provoke interesting debate and opinion, bring it on! Ha!

Miko

 

[PaulTRose]

This like saying 'british racing green'.......there isnt such an official colour.....companies used a 'near enough' dark green

Too many variables

Like miko said a factory fresh one is very different to one thats been used for 5 years

 

[Miko]

Like miko said a factory fresh one is very different to one thats been used for 5 years

When modellers 'weather' their builds with pre shading and various washes etc, makes deliberating over a particular paint shade a bit pointless

This why I build factory fresh and shiny new, weathering is a delicate and fine art, way beyond me, I've seen too many builds ruined by over weathering

 

[Tim Marlow]

Will the real Russian green please stand up….contemporary to Bronze green I think…


….and can it bring the real Field grey with it…..

There are simply too many variables to get a truly accurate rendition, and even if you do, it will then change at different times of day and if the sun goes behind the clouds…..Life is too short buddy, go with the one you think is best. At some point it would be spot on…..

 

[Miko]

. . . go with the one you think is best. At some point it would be spot on…..

Exactly that, now you need to work out not 'if' but 'when' your paint was the true colour!

This gets more absurd the deeper in we go, how about light conditions, the appearance of colour under different meteorological conditions can vary considerably,

If you display your model under night time conditions it really doesn't matter what colour it's painted, can't see it anyway! Ha!



Miko (currently a peachy pink colour)

 

[Miko]

Just wondering what other peoples thoughts are about which paint might be the closest match to British Army Bronze Green?

Apologies AlexBB, it must seem we're being most unhelpful and maybe too critical after you've gone to such lengths in pursuit of accuracy, your level of research in producing all those cards noting full details is admirable and quite impressive. I wish I had your attention to detail as I go about my daily life

For what it's worth, I wouldn't go with Humbrol 75 'Bronze Green', to me, it's too dark, in my limited experience of British AFV's I would go for Humbrol 163 'Dark Green' which is a colour used along with a dark Grey for post war RAF tactical aircraft! It just looks right to me

Miko

 

[Tim Marlow]

Agreed. I wasn’t trying to decry your approach Alex, just trying to say that the only answer that is really correct is the colour you think works best. The chances are that all those colours were mixed to be accurate to different sources, so all are correct in one way or another. I was just trying to minimise the angst you might get from chasing absolute colour fidelity.

 

[Richard48]

Im sure i have some older Humbrol Bronze green in the original range.I seem to recall its quite a dark shade

 

[AlexBB]

Apologies AlexBB, it must seem we're being most unhelpful and maybe too critical after you've gone to such lengths in pursuit of accuracy, your level of research in producing all those cards noting full details is admirable and quite impressive. I wish I had your attention to detail as I go about my daily life

Miko, No need to apologise at all, I recognise that shades of colour are always a contentious issue for many modellers and fading, paint mixing variations, light conditions etc etc etc will always have an input to what you get or see... I was just keen to hear what other peoples opinions were as sitting here on my own mulling it over I seemed to be going round in circles lol...

Thank You all for your thoughts...

I have not yet decided which one I may use, but I am leaning towards the Vallejo Model Air for shade of colour but the AK Real Color for ease of use...
I do feel the Humbrol just looks a bit too dark and maybe a bit too much on the 'brown' side.. TBH I have never used any of the new Humbrol Gen2 acrylics, in truth I have never used the Gen1 Humbrol either and purchased this specific Humbrol colour just to do a test and see how the paint came out compared to others and what Humbrol / Airfix's paint intention was...

I won't be 'weathering' the model as it's not my expertise and I quite like 'Factory Fresh' or at least a not heavily used look, maybe a bit of edge wear / basic shading that would be present on an operational vehicle but one that is not covered in mud etc...

I use the test cards most of the time, they are DSPIAE ones and have a black and white test panel on them that shows the diff in shade over light or dark bases... for me they make life easier as I have a reference to go back to and take up far less space than plastic test spoons... I quite like them.

 

[Miko]

I have not yet decided which one I may use,

Why not take a statistical approach, you have a reasonable set of samples then choose the one that's most similar to all the others.

Miko (applying Occam's razor)

 

[wasdale32]

Remember that the vehicle wasn't always painted as a single unit. Often individual panels might come from different manufacturing batches so, for instance, the tailgate might be a different shade than the side panels. Even individual wheels could be different shades

 

[Airborne01]

From my experience I recall 'Deep Bronze Green' was actually a dark, semigloss shade. This was applied to all vehicles until the advent of the lighter, matt, IR green (late '60's). Vehicles etc often wiped over with diesel soaked rags for reviews, FFR (Fit for Role, not Fitted for Radio in this instance) inspections, and sometimes CO's/MTO's whims!
Steve

 

[Miko]

. . . Vehicles etc often wiped over with diesel soaked rags for reviews,. . .

That would explain the slight sheen seen on military vehicles and not completely 'matt' finished at all


Miko (well tanked up!)

 

[BarryW]

I am fully with Tim Marlow and others on this for all the reasons stated. You can then add in ‘scale effect’ to complicate things further.

My advice is to select a brand that you know, get on well with, have a full range of suitable colours for what you need and just get on with it.

Don’t worry about colour or what sheen the paint is either. There are vanishes that can provide varying grades of sheen anyway. Decals rarely will match the paint sheen so varnishing is important for an accurate appearance even if you want a ‘factory fresh’ appearance.

My own choice of brand are MRP for all the reasons I outlined above.

 

[AlexBB]

Well!......

Firstly I would like to thank people for your comments and input...

After all my comparisons including now getting the SMS Deep Bronze Green PL-136 and considering all of the advice on here, then watching a YouTube build series of the Airfix Stalwart kit and reading various comments on that series, I have decided to not use a Bronze Green at all lol...

I am going for NATO Green and Tamiya LP-58...

From various sources it seems that although Airfix have specified Humbrol 75 - Bronze Green for all 3 schemes in the kit they are likely wrong for the 1980 & 1981 Versions which would have most probably been painted NATO Green and the 1969 version could be either the Bronze Green or NATO Green...
I don't have the MRP NATO Green, but I do have the Tamiya LP-58 paint and the NATO Green sprays well... and if I want to add any sun fading I can always add a little LP-75 Buff to the mix to mellow it down..

 

[Airborne01]

May I point out that the colours depicted on the box art of the Airfix Stalwart are actually a very good representation of the colours 'as was'! for a working vehicle. Several of my ex RCT , RAOC and Infantry mates agree. They are the colours I'll use as the starting point when I finally get round to attacking this beast!
Steve

 

[Miko]

Well!......

I am going for NATO Green and Tamiya LP-58...

Good choice, looks about right to me

I look forward to seeing your progress


Miko