discussion Your thoughts please gents?!?!

[Guest]

That V1 tracking you down in Hull was a persistent blighter Laurie!

Not persistent enough Patrick. Like Winston S Churchill I had it's measure.


Laurie

 

[PaulTRose]

Laurie


its personal accounts like that i love to hear


my dad was in the RAF during the war and typically spoke very little about it.....the recollections he did tell me i still treasure......the working on the Kings Avro Anson when it went unservicable when he was at RAF Bircham Newton......driving the Padre's jeep in Karachi.....walking out of the NAAFI with a sandwich to have a hawk swoop and steal it from his hand,....would never tell me any of the nasty side of it though


my mum grew up in Norfolk (only a few miles from Bircham Newton, was how they met) her stories were about watching american bombers go over head and come back low level all shot up.......the anti aircraft gun on the hill on the village and how her mum made extra cash by doing the crews washing....stories like that


its to my shame that i never got either of them to write down or record their stories whilst they were alive....its up to me now to keep those memories for as long as i can

 

[Guest]

So. I wrote the post linked at the top of this thread. I run the blog. And I'm the one y'all have been casually bashing and making assumptions about. Have to say it's giving me a good laugh!


I figured I'd drop in and hopefully clear up a few things.


1 - Expletives. Believe it or not, I write for a living! The blog, for me, is an outlet where I don't have to bend to client or legal approval. It also lets me play around with tone, which can and does include expletives. If you don't like it, that's totally fine, it's a big internet!


2 - Vocabulary. It seems I just can't win with some people. Another post of mine was jumped on for using words like verisimilitude, but now I apparently don't have the vocabulary to express complex thoughts. It's all so confusing!


3 - On "not knowing aviation history". Believe it or not, this post was about the fascination with German subjects! No, I have no desire to build a Lancaster that firebombed Dresden, nor a B-29 that inflicted the same horror upon Tokyo. I view those raids as little more than state-sanctioned terrorism. The Enola Gay and Bockscar are different beasts as the atomic bombs occupy, in my opinion, a far more gray area of morality.


4 - Influencing your builds! Nope! My goal was to question the lopsided representation of German subjects by kitmakers and to pose the question of "why?" to those who build exclusively or nearly-so German subjects.


5 - I'm a moron/should spend more time building/have nothing better to do. Well, I may be a moron! Believe it or not, bench time isn't something I get to have whenever I want. Work, family, all that business. But I can get in some writing time here or there, and over a couple of days (and sometimes far longer!) a post comes together.


6 - I'm always right/think I'm always right. Life would be much easier that way, true, but no, I'm not and I don't think that I am. In modeling as in the rest of life, my techniques and thoughts have evolved over time, and will continue to evolve with further experience and experimentation.


7 - "Can't build German stuff". Oh, you got me! Guess that 109 I did for the Weathering Magazine doesn't count then? I've built German stuff before. I will build German stuff in the future. I even linked to them at the bottom of the post. But since y'all got bored or turned off by the language, here you go, judge for yourself:


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Alright. I'll leave you gents to it then. Have to polish off some work projects before I can hit the bench for the evening. It's been fun!

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[Guest]

Some fine looking models there. And for the record, I thought you made some interesting and valid points in that article. And this being a friendly forum, I look forward to hearing folks' response. One thing that cannot be ignored, is that your article sparked a lively discussion, and that can never be a bad thing!


Critical reflection, the new black?

 

[Guest]

I agree John! I've read most parts of Doogs blog & overall it's entertaining & informative.


Everyone's entitled to their opinions, and expressing them should be applauded & encouraged. Communication is the developed skill ( so not including in-built stuff like compassion) that allowed us humans to be where we are today.


Unfortunately, political correctness means we are hamstrung in how we express ourselves for fear of being labelled with some ' ism ' or another.


The language / expletives thing is as much about geographic location as anything!


Healthy debate is a good thing, but it's a shame so many people believe it is a personal attack, rather than just a point of view.

 

[Guest]

Interesting Doog that you joined the forum to tell us all of that.


Actually you may have had a laugh but I believe that most of what people


have recorded here is their serious belief. All that I have written is my belief


and some very serious.


Laurie

 

[eddiesolo]

So. I wrote the post linked at the top of this thread. I run the blog. And I'm the one y'all have been casually bashing and making assumptions about. Have to say it's giving me a good laugh!
I figured I'd drop in and hopefully clear up a few things.


1 - Expletives. Believe it or not, I write for a living! The blog, for me, is an outlet where I don't have to bend to client or legal approval. It also lets me play around with tone, which can and does include expletives. If you don't like it, that's totally fine, it's a big internet!


2 - Vocabulary. It seems I just can't win with some people. Another post of mine was jumped on for using words like verisimilitude, but now I apparently don't have the vocabulary to express complex thoughts. It's all so confusing!


3 - On "not knowing aviation history". Believe it or not, this post was about the fascination with German subjects! No, I have no desire to build a Lancaster that firebombed Dresden, nor a B-29 that inflicted the same horror upon Tokyo. I view those raids as little more than state-sanctioned terrorism. The Enola Gay and Bockscar are different beasts as the atomic bombs occupy, in my opinion, a far more gray area of morality.


4 - Influencing your builds! Nope! My goal was to question the lopsided representation of German subjects by kitmakers and to pose the question of "why?" to those who build exclusively or nearly-so German subjects.


5 - I'm a moron/should spend more time building/have nothing better to do. Well, I may be a moron! Believe it or not, bench time isn't something I get to have whenever I want. Work, family, all that business. But I can get in some writing time here or there, and over a couple of days (and sometimes far longer!) a post comes together.


6 - I'm always right/think I'm always right. Life would be much easier that way, true, but no, I'm not and I don't think that I am. In modeling as in the rest of life, my techniques and thoughts have evolved over time, and will continue to evolve with further experience and experimentation.


7 - "Can't build German stuff". Oh, you got me! Guess that 109 I did for the Weathering Magazine doesn't count then? I've built German stuff before. I will build German stuff in the future. I even linked to them at the bottom of the post. But since y'all got bored or turned off by the language, here you go, judge for yourself:


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Alright. I'll leave you gents to it then. Have to polish off some work projects before I can hit the bench for the evening. It's been fun!

Firstly, kudos for making your points and joining to air them. Hopefully you will stick around and enjoy the forum.


Secondly, amazing models, top drawer work.


Thirdly, post anything online and prepare for the river of crit and likes.


Language, it maybe your blog and it maybe your outlet but, it is open with people, even children, freely able to view and read. Yes, I did turn off and didn't bother to fully read your writings due to the expletives. I mean, you say you write for a living and yet on a open page you swear like one of those idiots on Youtube with nothing better to say...recipe for not taking you seriously.


You came across as ranting, well to me, and not in a 'lets discuss' manner.


As has been said, it did spark a debate so, good on you there, and not one swear word either...


Regards.

 

[stona]

I think it's because the Nazis had the best hats That and because, in terms of aircraft at least, the Germans had a fantastic juxtaposition of technical innovation and engineering excellence with the most incompetent aircraft production system of any nation in WW2.


I have as much a historical interest in WW2 and the development of National Socialism in Germany as I do in the models and I most definitely do not build German subjects exclusively.


If I want to build a rocket powered interceptor it's going to be German (I've built both both a Ba 349 and an Me 163). If I want a turbojet powered night fighter it will be German. The list is extensive. That's why.


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

Interesting Doog that you joined the forum to tell us all of that.
Actually you may have had a laugh but I believe that most of what people


have recorded here is their serious belief. All that I have written is my belief


and some very serious.


Laurie

Laurie, I think that one can see the humorous side to many of the comments made about the blog subjects without laughing at the serious consequences of war. Indeed, that's the point of his reference to building German armour, especially SS units.


In my view, we can't keep hatred alive for things that happened in the past. German people of today are disgusted & ashamed about what happened.


Back in 1990 I was in Munich with a female friend & there was a news report about Neo-Nazis in then East Germany. To my surprise, she began to cry, and when I asked why she replied that she felt the shame of the past.


On another note, I sometimes email a couple of Greek model makers, one who lives on Crete, an island I've visited many times.


He has no issues about building German subjects or having German guests in his hotel. Even though he lost all his older male relatives during the German occupation when all Greek males between 12 & 60 were either executed or deported as slave labour.


Forgiveness & compassion are our 2 greatest attributes.

 

[Guest]

Forgiveness & compassion are our 2 greatest attributes.

Amen to that!

 

[Guest]

Laurie, I think that one can see the humorous side to many of the comments made about the blog subjects without laughing at the serious consequences of war. Indeed, that's the point of his reference to building German armour, especially SS units.
In my view, we can't keep hatred alive for things that happened in the past. German people of today are disgusted & ashamed about what happened.


Back in 1990 I was in Munich with a female friend & there was a news report about Neo-Nazis in then East Germany. To my surprise, she began to cry, and when I asked why she replied that she felt the shame of the past.


On another note, I sometimes email a couple of Greek model makers, one who lives on Crete, an island I've visited many times.


He has no issues about building German subjects or having German guests in his hotel. Even though he lost all his older male relatives during the German occupation when all Greek males between 12 & 60 were either executed or deported as slave labour.


Forgiveness & compassion are our 2 greatest attributes.

Your are a lovely character Patrick but please read my replies before replying


to them. Please


I have not said at any time that I hate Germans. That I have not forgiven them.


Actually I have not hated them and have not had the reason to forgive them.


In fact I have felt very sorry for them that all this stuff has to come up time


and again.


I do not hate or hold anything against the German peoples. One of our friends


from way back in the early 60's is a German Chef. He left Germany and arrived


here in Jersey in the late fifties. A very very nice person. Franz Schindler. Franz


taught my wife at college the art of cooking including those exquisite bread rolls.


We have spent many happy times having dinner together.


I belong to a Video Club. One of my best friends there is Guitar. He is German


a lovely character and very very kind. I taught him, or tried for many hours, the


art of flim editing.


Next. I hated what happened in the war. Read my reply. I hated it. I hate war.


I hate it. I am realistic to realise that it cannot at times be avoided. I only wish


it could. There is no humour in that. Is there ?


I do not build German stuff as it reminds me of those things that I have written of.


I feel disloyal to my own countrymen who fought in the war and those families


who lost those in the war. You may find that strange but then you have not lived


in it or the immediate aftermath.


Forgiveness and Compassion. Easy to say if not involved. I feel for those children


who lost a father and the wife her husband. I also feel for a soldier, airman or seamen


who arrives home to find his home and family no more there. For the Grandma and


Father who have lost those they produced tended and loved. Can they be forgiven


if they do not have Forgiveness and Compassion.


Lastly my comment I made about Dooug having a laugh at us was nothing to do with


war or the Germans. I thought it condescending.


So that is my stance.


Laurie

 

[Dave Jay]

May be it would be a good time to put this particular subject to bed, this Doog chap has placed a wedge between people on here that was non existent before him, okay so he's joined the forum but for what reason remains to be seen, my take on that would be that he's probably watching to see how much he can blow a forum community apart. Friendships have been formed on here albeit virtual some may be real, we all have a common bond and that is modelling and modelling whatever we choose regardless of political opinion. Our enjoyment shouldn't be marred by one person.


May be I'm wrong but that's my opinion.

 

[Wendall]

I thought we was just glueing plastic together and painting it

 

[Dave Jay]

I thought we was just glueing plastic together and painting it

I think that was meant to be the general idea!

 

[Guest]

Hmm I disagree Dave. It wasn't Doog who started the thread & I doubt he's interested in damaging the forum.


There's always room for discussion & polite disagreement - Laurie & I don't always see eye-to-eye, but that's natural.


Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with the points that Doog raises in his blog is a matter of personal choice. But I do think it's important that people raise points of discussion on any subject.

 

[Guest]

I do not think that this fellow will harm the harmony. For me he has shown himself the guy for


what he is.


In fact like all things the strength of a friendship is to strengthened by knowing how we all feel


and accept that we all have differences of opinion. Look Patrick and I have a lot of differences


as we are very much opinionated. But I think we have a good respect for each other. He writes


about my replies I write about his. I hope he enjoys as much as I do. I have learnt a lot form him.


I do think this forum is a bit deeper than model making it is about friendship.


laurie

 

[Guest]

Oh no Patrick we agree on something.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

I'm in Dave.... just waiting for how it turns

 

[eddiesolo]

I thought we was just glueing plastic together and painting it

WHAT?! You mean this is a plastic model model kit site? Damn, got the wrong forum...

 

[Dave Jay]

Perhaps I should keep my opinions to myself. Lesson learnt.