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To criticise, suggest or advise? THAT is the question!

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  • Guest

    #16
    The single biggest problem with forum critique is that it is simply impssible to make obvious such things as

    'tongue in cheek'

    'sarcasm' and

    'dry humour'

    I have been critiscised, (well, flamed would have been a more accurate statement), recently on a motorbike forum I use simply for commenting on the fact that a painters website which was posted on a thread, was awfully designed, I mentioned first of all that the custom paint looked good, simply that the website was not user friendly in presentation, navigation and had a distinctly unprofessional look and considering that the painter in question was hoping to sell expensive custom paintwork logic dictates you MUST have a professional store front, (a website is after all the equivalent of your shop entrance).

    I had some particularly unpleasant posts subsequent to this accusing me of all but industrial espionage.

    Now my sole intention was to constructively critiscize the store front in the hopes the painter would be big enough to take this on board and maybe look at some of his competition and look to see where it could be improved.

    Seemingly one or two others thought I was being overly critical, nasty? and this after the OP had, as his closing statement, heres the website, what do you think?

    I find also that most people on here unsure about something will typically ask for help and advise during the build rather than complete a model and ask for someone to tell them whats wrong.

    Personally I think an additional forum entitled

    'models for critique'

    would be the best way about it, then anyone posting in there wil be fully aware that all commentary good, bad or indifferent would be levelled at their model, I personally would use it for some models but not for others, some I build for fun and just don't care that the supercharger intake is 1 scale inch too short for the xyz f3 MkIIII trop turbo escort cosworth, others I look to building as accurately as I possibly can.

    Incidentally, another example has occurred to me, I commented on a thread a couple of days ago regarding a Cosworth, (the above nonexistant model reminded me), I made mention of customising a model of a sierra entirely in jest, even adding a laughing smiley to reinforce this, purely because sensible replies had already been left and it seemed a funny thing to add to lighten the mood but clearly it touched a nerve as a follow up poster made a statement about a 'typical sierra and an RS500 cosworth Sierra being completely diferent!'

    This highlights the point of intention not coming across in writing, in company it would have been far easier to get across the jesting nature of this particular comment.

    I think the last thing any of us wish to do with such a wonderful and friendly forum is to turn it unintentionally into an unwelcoming and unfriendly one.

    I scoured quite a few model forums before regsitering with this one, some of which were very scathing about builds.

    Comment

    • Guest

      #17
      what is the difference between a rivet counter and someone telling you that your cockpit is a shade too dark,there seems to be a very fine line between the two to me.i welcome critsism if it was asked for but i would not ask.i am not a good modeller(very new to this hobby) and my painting skills are better suited to the living room walls than a 1/72 jet plane, i know my efforts are bad and that i will improve with time but i would not like people telling me that, quite happy with my wife telling me that it looks good so she can carry on watching telly in peace lol. the critiques corner is a good idea.if anyone was to critisise my work they would get repetative strain injuries from all the typing on the keyboard.............i will add a big LOL

      Comment

      • Ian M
        Administrator
        • Dec 2008
        • 18272
        • Ian
        • Falster, Denmark

        #18
        T'is a sticky subject. I Know that some times I can really put my foot in it. I am painfully blunt at times and am often refered to at work as the grumpy git! This on the other hand does tend to make me think abit more about what I write. After all writing involves more thought than just opening ya gob and letting rip.

        I must confess that I have notices the distinct lack of critique and have also come to the conclusion that many of the posts where a bit of 'help' or 'could of done this', are those threads with very few replies.

        I have come with the odd comment before, (remember the tyres on your up turned truck Ron??). I would never slag a build or builder off, but if I see some thing that just pokes my eye out I say so. In a nice way.

        When I post a build I expect comments, and I often get them too, both encouraging and helpfull suggestions. I often when posting a finished model say at the end of the post, some thing allong the lines of comments and suggestions welcome, or what do you think?

        The start of a new forum: Critique corner. Dont think its a good idea, as things will end up lost, in the wronge section, or people will just stay out of it.

        I'm All for the suggestion of people wanting help/critique/what ever simply say so either in the first post of the build, or at the end of the intro when they present it in the finished section of the relevant area.
        Group builds

        Bismarck

        Comment

        • Guest

          #19
          Ron as always mate i do agree with what has been written here and i will also say that iam guilty of this as we all are i think, i for one always put in my posts all comment welcome good or bad because in the past things people have pointed out help me improve upon my skills. I also agree that some people are a little tense when constructive advice has been given, non of us know the full potential of the others here and as Graham mentioned if the person has put what they see as 100% into a piece of work then surely that little helping hand would encourage rather than dishearten but iam know this is not always the case. I like the the idea of a section where models are open to critique because then the only ones who would put there work there are the people who openly don't mind constructive advice, but this is would not mean misuse or abuse iam a member of another site that is now just a picture gallery because the critique section was being abused by mallicious people and has now been shut down. This is the best forum around and i for one would like to see it stay that way.

          scott

          Comment

          • tr1ckey66
            SMF Supporters
            • Mar 2009
            • 3592

            #20
            Hi Ron

            It's a difficult balance to achieve, honest appraisal or offensive criticism, and is open to abuse.

            I agree with Scott, the last thing I would want is for this great forum to be turned into a picture gallery only and would therefore also recommend advice/criticism to be given when asked for. I think there's a danger otherwise of putting new modellers off if critiques were common practice. As M1ks says, it's incredibly difficult to gauge tone-of-voice in a post - you can use all the emoticons you want and you still won't convey the full meaning and intention in your message so there's a greater chance of misunderstanding.

            Because this forum seems to so very well liked I would say that the balance is about right.

            It is a difficult and contentious issue though.

            Paul

            Comment

            • Guest

              #21
              Personally, if I ask for critique, or a nicer way of putting it, friendly, helpful advice, then please feel free to bring it on. I'm a big boy and can take it, plus it will help with future builds,(I hope). I put a photo of a model on another site in the critics corner and out of a couple hundred views, one person said "Nice". To tell the truth, I was devastated, but carried the "Nice" around for a few hours. Geo

              Comment

              • spanner570
                • May 2009
                • 15557

                #22
                Has anyone else noticed the quiet revolution going on here abouts?

                Since I posted this thread I have seen a slow but sure increase in the number of my fellow modellers who are now prepared to make suggestions, give advise and yes, even criticise, all in a friendly way, the builds posted here on S.Ms.

                This sort of approach can only make for a more relaxed, yet positive atmosphere for both the exibitor and the observer.

                In my opinion this can only be for the good and will help to make us all better modellers and equally, ensure John's forum is an even better place to be a part of.

                Ron

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                • Guest

                  #23
                  I completely agree Ron and I have to say I've noticed more requests for 'All' feedback. I don't think anyone wants to be unecessarily critical but it is so much more useful to have both positive and negative feedback on a model.

                  Well done for starting the revolution!

                  Comment

                  • Guest

                    #24
                    I want to give Richard a huge thanks for spotting my forgotten blend on my Antena pipes,without such a critique I would have totally missed it. This is exactly what we need and why I like this forum keep it coming. I know in my first two aircraft builds everyone was being kind and I do appreciate that however no mention was made that I painted the props the wrong color. Totally my fault ,but a nice square kick in the dangly bits was well deserved for such a mistake :laughing:seriously do'nt hesitate to point me down the right path ,I need the help and appreciate the input

                    Comment

                    • colin m
                      Moderator
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 8855
                      • Colin
                      • Stafford, UK

                      #25
                      One solution would be to have something like a "critique corner" where people could post their models with the INTENTION of receiving a somewhat more rigorous assesment of their effort.

                      This might work. I recently finished a model, and while it was 'ok' there's definately something missing. Somehow all the pieces of the jigsaw didn't go together. So, If a person completes a model and he or she is maybe a bit dissapointed with the result, the critique corner might be the place to discover what went wrong ?

                      Regards

                      Colin m

                      Comment

                      • Guest

                        #26
                        Maybe a specific heading for "Warts 'n All" feedback somewhere. Let's see if John finds the idea has merit.

                        Playing devil's advocate however I wonder if we would then look less favourably on modellers who do not put thier models in the Warts 'n All section? Do we think it could lead to a two tier system or even a situation where some modellers may be scared of putting thier model in the Warts 'n All section for fear of objective feedback and be scared of putting thier model on an open board for fear of being seen as scared of the open feedback?

                        So there is a possibility that it may put members off showing thier models. Perhaps leaving up to individuals to ask for objective feedback when they really want it might be enough for most.

                        Comment

                        • stona
                          • Jul 2008
                          • 9889

                          #27
                          I think that the "critique corner", which I think I may have originally suggested, may now have been rendered redundant by people's positive response to Ron's original post. I've noticed many more people effectively saying "give me your honest opinion, I can take it" which allows fellow members to give such opinions. Someone who doesn't ask for a critique is allowed to post his model with no fear of too negative a reaction.

                          We are lucky here that people will give an honest opinion without resorting to the sort of irrelevant personal vitriol which you may see elsewhere. I've no time for that sort of thing and thankfully I don't believe you lot have either.

                          Trey which build had the "bad" props? I can't believe I didn't notice LOL.

                          Cheers

                          Steve

                          Comment

                          • Ian M
                            Administrator
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 18272
                            • Ian
                            • Falster, Denmark

                            #28
                            I think thing work fine as they are. Sort of.

                            The addition of yet another fora on this board would only add to things being missed. As to a critique corner I don't see the need we all post our builds on an even footing and as Richard points out could lead to a them and us site.

                            Ian M
                            Group builds

                            Bismarck

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