Scale Model Shop

**eddiesolo** · 16 October 2013, 09:40

I too am still a brush man and just starting to get in to AB. I needed something small, space is limited and have a small compressor, this may not be ideal but for a starter kit it is ideal, gives good flow, which is adjustable, only fires up when needed, doesn't take up much room. Paints can be bought pre-mixed so you just add to your cup and off you go. I use AB cleaner and just add some to the cup and then add the AB to a cleaning bowl and clean through, also do this when changing colours, just make sure you you use all cleaner and test before you start spraying as you don't want cleaner on your model.

Any unused paint in your cup can be poured back into the original container, any paints you have mixed can be stored in a empty bottle with a lid, you can buy small bottles for this purpose until you use up paints, clean out the bottle and then use that for storage.

The pics show my kit, cost around £45. It may not be the best but to get to grips with it seems okay.

Si

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**spanner570** · 16 October 2013, 09:44

Can't help with airbrushes as I use just a paint brush. I find Vallejo Model Colour Acrylics are way better than any other....Avoid Tamiya acrylics for brush work.

You will be getting loads of advise on your other questions toot sweet, fear not!

Ron

**eddiesolo** · 16 October 2013, 09:49

My wife doesn't understand the appeal

There's a surprise...

Si

**stona** · 16 October 2013, 09:49

This will be fun! I am an enamel user so that will colour my answers....slightly.

1 If you have enamel paints and are happy using them why change? You will add a further complication to your move to airbrushing. I think that there is a good consensus here that Vallejo make some very good acrylic paints but you might need to find what suits you.

2 Most of us apply some sort of gloss coat (I use Klear like you) before decals. Once your decals have dried and you are happy with the model you can apply a further coat of varnish to give the finish you want, usually matt.

3 I think it was 42

4a Some of the Vallejo acrylics like the Modelair range come thinned for airbrushing but some will still need "adjustment". Most other acrylics and enamels need thinning for spraying. Don't be worried about this. Enamels are MUCH more tolerant of approximate thinning. I thin in the paint cup by adding drops of white spirits to my Humbrol and White Ensign enamels.

b You will lose the excess paint in the bowl. If it has been thinned it should never be returned to the bottle/tin. You will get quite good at estimating how much you need and will be able to minimise this most of the time.

To clean the bowl I squirt in some thinners, spray about half through and then wipe out the bowl with a kitchen roll. Next I fill the bowl again, remove the needle, spray half through, back flush (by blocking the nozzle) and wipe the bowl again. Finally I fill the bowl a third time, re-insert the needle and spray through....Done.

c As above

d As above.

Sometimes I don't completely strip and deep clean an airbrush for months, usually if it starts misbehaving. I believe this is another advantage of using enamel paints. I've had a couple of my airbrushes for more years than I care to remember. I have replaced the occasional nozzle, needle or seal and they work as well today as when they were new.

e Explain to SWMBO that when modelling she knows where you are and what you are up to

There are FAR more expensive hobbies you could take up

A friend of mine used to race hydroplanes and it just about bankrupted him!

An airbrush/compressor set up is a big investment (for most people at least) but it is a one off which should work for many years. Buy the best you can, I know that's easier to type than do.

Some of the other fellas may be able to comment on those options.

I hope you get it sorted, don't forget to show us some results and......enjoy.

Cheers

Steve

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 11:05

On c and d (using acrylic paint): in my 9 months of airbrushing I have seldom needed to change paint during a spraying session, but when I do, I flush out with airbrush cleaner until no colour comes out, and brush the nozzle with a soft brush loaded with cleaner and wipe with a paper towel.

During a spraying session I brush the nozzle every few minutes, as above, to avoid flakes joining the paint stream.

After a session, I always thoroughly clean the AB (0.4 mm needle size). I wipe the needle in a cleaner-soaked paper towel. Then I disassemble the nozzle parts and soak them for about 5 minutes in AB cleaner while I use the supplied bottle brush (soaked in cleaner) to clean the passage between the nozzle area and back towards the trigger, but not into the seal (Harder and Steenbeck advise not to do that because it tends to wear the seal) until drying the brush on a paper towel shows no more colour (difficult with clear varnish).

Then I use an inter-dental brush (from Boots etc.) to clean the nozzle, and other brushes to clean the other two nozzle parts. I inspect all brushes for hairs and remove them. Now and again, esp. if I have had a serious blockage, I take the trigger out and clean that and its seat within the AB. I then usually put all parts into my little ultrasound cleaner which often loosens tiny specks which can be seen in the water. Despite that, I sometimes (perhaps once avery 10 sessions) get a blockage and have to abandon the session while I re-clean. I am particular to avoid flakes of dried paint getting into the AB. For example, I always wipe the spout of Vallejo bottles (and the top of other paint bottles) before and after using, and always replace the cap immediately. Despite my Aberdeen ancestry I throw financial caution to the wind and bin painty paper towels early, well before they run the risk of depositing flakes. The cup needs thorough cleaning because of the flakes problem.

I do all disassembly and re-assembly over (literally over) a small tray placed well away from the table edge, with by stomach pressed hard up against the table so that I work over the tray. Nozzle parts are expensive and once dropped are eaten by the carpet monster.

Obsessive? Well, yes. I am that way inclined. "Prevention is better than cure". Being retired I have lots of time. When I started spraying in February I got lots of inexplicable and frustrating blockages (which sometimes can be blown out at high air pressure (50 PSI) and lots of trigger.

I can now reliably get an even coat of paint which looks pretty well up to the standards I see at shows. Clear gloss varnish is tricky which I use before decalling, as per the rules to avoid silvering.

I see that Steve (Stona) does such deep cleaning only now and again. Perhaps enamel paints are more forgiving (acrylic paints dry in a flash, mostly a great advantage).

Its useful to know what other people do and as a near-beginner I have found that very useful (thanks folks), but personal experimenting is the key to getting things right (and the ability to press on after a disappointment).

(Must have a coffee after all that.)

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 11:11

Lots of help there thank you.

@eddiesolo - there are no problems with you using such a "basic" compressor? I thought an air tank and a moisture collector were must haves to keep the stream of air and paint constant and to remove any moisture from the air before it is fired with the paint? Maybe it depends on how long you are using it? Anyone else know if a tank and moisture collector are required?

Also - I'm interested in that blue mech you have on your airbrush...I always thought it looked kind of fiddly to operate the airbrush with that wee trigger up top...so is that mech to make that a bit more "easy feel"?

@Steven000 - I was thinking about changing to acrylics for 4 reasons

1. quickness of drying...enamels take a considerable amount of time

2. cleaning - this only really applies if I was to move to airbrushes, but water is cheaper and in more abundance than white spirit :-) and given the amount you suggest cleaning - that's going to build up to a considerable amount of cleaner (I would think)

3. Viscosity - again only applies really to an airbrush but I worry about the viscosity of enamels on an airbrush

4. Life - sometimes no matter how much I make sure that enamel tin is sealed, I'll go to use a paint I don't often use (often for little cockpit bits and the like) and it's solid

As for using Klear - do you apply with the airbrush? I find with a normal brush it often bubbles

Thanks for the replies.

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 11:29

Some more points asked by Billy (wmar1967):

Thinning: I was rather obsessive about thinning (I use Vallejo model Air paints) but now just do what others advised, thin (preferably with the company's own thinner), to the consistency of milk about 10% (9 drops of the Vallejo + 1 drop of thinner from a plastic pipette, but Vallejo say that thinning of Model Air is unecessary. The amount of thinning seems not to be critical.

Cleaning Station: I have the cleaning station you listed, just to hold the airbrush and to contain initial test spraying. It came with my compressor bundle. But be careful not to bash the needle's point when putting the AB into the rest. One of those two-pronged nozzle protectors are useful and still allow wiping of the needle during a session.

Tiny Bottle Brushes. I find these indispensable. I avoided the ones with metal hairs, they could wear the AB.

Gravity Feed. My AB is gravity feed (cup on top). A lot of advice here is to go for that rather than bottom feed because gravity helps the paint to flow down into the nozzle, whereas with the bottom cup the air pressure (so I was told) needs to be higher to suck the paint upwards. I think people go for bottom feed for nail art, body painting, guitar decoration etc. (the bottle being bigger than most cups).

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 11:49

Thanks alot.

@Stevekir - there certainly seems to be more cleaning required than with a brush!

The whole idea of possibly moving to an airbrush is I prefer the finish. I can see when I've been making models that I will likely still be using brushes...

One last question I think (for now). What size needles would I require? I gather from 0.2 to 0.5? Bearing in mind I work on 1/48 aircraft and 1/35 vehicles - and I have been eyeing a couple of 1/32 aircraft

thanks again

**eddiesolo** · 16 October 2013, 12:06

@eddiesolo - there are no problems with you using such a "basic" compressor? I thought an air tank and a moisture collector were must haves to keep the stream of air and paint constant and to remove any moisture from the air before it is fired with the paint? Maybe it depends on how long you are using it? Anyone else know if a tank and moisture collector are required?

Also - I'm interested in that blue mech you have on your airbrush...I always thought it looked kind of fiddly to operate the airbrush with that wee trigger up top...so is that mech to make that a bit more "easy feel"?

Hi Billy, my set up comes with a moisture trap, it just isn't fitted on these pictures. The rule of what you pay for does apply and if you can afford better equipment then that is fine, however, on a budget this works okay to get you started, and as I said, it is small enough to cart around, set up and use. I tend to use mine for detailing work , as I still use rattle-cans etc for main coverage but I do intend to use this to practise on and sharpen my skills then maybe upgrade to a larger set up. The blue part is just a handle, I have a disability that means that mu fingers and hands cramp so holding it and operating the top trigger can cause issues-I drop the blighter lol. This just allows me to hold onto it lighter and can rest more, gives me a bit more stability.

Si

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 12:31

Best collection of paints do not know as I only use Vallejo mostly model air. It does the trick for me & has so many colours & a vast array of bits & pieces. Acrylic. Cannot stand the enamel smell & living in a flat it is not acceptable plus a minor thing I hate enamels to work with.

Decals. As a base I use Vallejo gloss Varnish. But ! Just had a dabble with Humbrol Clear (obviously a play on Klear) & it is remarkable. Try it.

Air brush one no you can not. Vallejo Model Air though is easy. Pour in to the pot approx (depends on the paint colour) 20% thinners. Pour paint into the pot on the top of the thinners. Mix with a brush in the pot. Mixing paints. The Vallejo containers have a dropper top. 5 drops of say red 2 drops of white mix with brush in the pot. Unused paint in the pot squeeze the air out of the container place dropper in the paint release and the residue is sucked back.

Cleaning an airbrush. I use mostly water. Harder & Steinbeck air brush. Dismantle wash all parts in water (using acrylics) place nozzle in airbrush cleaner reassemble 4 minutes. Changing colour in a session. Spurt through a couple of pots full of water half a pot of airbrush cleaner & all ready for paint. Some only clean assembled I prefer in 4 mins to clean disassembled.

I would recommend gravity feed & dual action airbrush (tried the other type in my opinion they are not suitable for model making). I would go for Harder & Steinbeck or Iwata. You can get good deals on these. Tried Badger!!!!!!!!. If it is finance go as said for the the H & S or Iwata as a cheaper brush will not have the quality in engineering & hence in what you can do with the brush. But then many will dispute that. All I can say is that I have been through the mill & spent money (thrown it away) on poor quality in the belief that I am going to get quality & satisfaction.

Compressor is better with a tank. Again had both so I think the tank makes for a better more consistent finish.

Another way of looking at this. If you like airbrushing then an airbrush will last you for ever. With an H & S & Iwata all parts are replaceable on average not with a cheapo. I f you do not like it put it on Ebay & you will get a sizeable chunk of your money back.

Lastly do not worry about the paint you are to use as 99% of paints will airbrush & you can try them to find the one that suits you.

Laurie

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 12:34

Thanks eddiesolo

It just looks so small compared to the others I've seen...and in fact I've never seen a compressor in all the links I've visited like that one. What about not having any "stabilising" feet? Isn't that an issue? (I guess not on your quilt) :-)

**stona** · 16 October 2013, 12:51

For model paints your nozzle range of 0.2-0.5 is about right. The smallest I use is 0.3 an I make mostly aircraft from 1/72 to 1/32.

0.2mm is pushing towards the limits of what will work smoothly with typical model paints.

Laurie, I think the extra cleaning needed for acrylics is indeed due to the speed at which they dry. As you know I did switch to acrylics myself for a couple of years, so I do have some experience with them. I found that they dried to a hard skin both inside the paint cup and nozzle/needle assembly and this took some shifting. Enamels don't dry anywhere near as quickly (he said stating the bleeding obvious) so I find, for example, I can withdraw a needle and give it a quick wipe to clean it, same for a paint cup.

I think I sound like I'm "knocking" acrylics which is not my intention at all. I just want to share my experience of both. There are many very good reasons to use acrylic rather than enamel paints, some of which Billy has already mentioned.

In the end it's just a matter of finding what works best for you.

Everyone, including me, recommends a compressor with an air tank (reservoir). There is a good reason for this, it ensures an even flow of air to the airbrush. The first compressor I ever had did not have a reservoir and the pulsing of the air could be felt on the hand at the end of the hose with the brush disconnected. It still worked pretty well for a few years before expiring in a puff of blue smoke

Cheers

Steve

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 13:09

Thank you.

For those that use enamels, another 5 questions!

1. What is the best/most comprehensive range you use? I've always used Humbrol and sometimes Revell

2. Where's the best shop to get all your modelling paints...using Amazon often turns out expensive in postage!

3. How do you stop the tins that aren't used so often from drying out/forming a rubbery layer on top

4. How do you know the consistency/mix ratio for enamel to thinners?

5. Do you use white spirits or thinners (for cleaning and thinning)?

I am really done now today - thank you all for taking the time to answer. You've likely all replied to these questions a thousand times before.

**Guest** · 16 October 2013, 13:20

As I think Steve we have all said from time to time to time suck it & see & take your choice. They all have their plus marks & their downsides. In the end it is the one you accept as good for the finished article in conjunction with putting up with the disadvantages which each has in its wake. I moved from enamels to acrylics after my very personal summing up summing up.

On acrylics yes they do go off quicker than. Mostly the acrylic paint removes with a sharp water spurt. Failing that place water in the cup move a finger around the cup & 90% of the time it cleaned. Any remainder a spot of Vallejo Airbrush cleaner on a tissue clears with a quick wipe around but that is rare. Not had any problems with dried acrylics in the paint channel or nozzle. Sometimes a small dried spot on the needle which a comes off easily using two finger dragged towards the point {essential}. Should point out this is using Vallejo. Not sure of the properties of other makes. Used Revel for a very short time but I had many blockages but found it good for hand brushing.

Essential for acrylic clean straight after a session! But if you forget place bits in Vallejo Cleaner & it will soften to remove easily up to about 12 hours after.

Laurie

Scale Model Shop

My questions - I did forewarn you!

My questions - I did forewarn you!

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