discussion MUZZEL BRAKE

[boatman]

HI GUYS I know this might be a stupid question but why do they have a muzzle brake on some tank guns an not on others an like ship guns ? but i know the have one on the R/N type 4.5 gun just got me wondering
chris

 

[minitnkr]

Helps reduce recoil and the design for tanks can reduce dustup that can delay visual second shot target acquisition. PaulE

 

[boatman]

Helps reduce recoil and the design for tanks can reduce dustup that can delay visual second shot target acquisition. PaulE

Thanks for that info PaulE but I also heard its so the muzzle flash don't give the tanks postion away is that true or just an ole tale ?
chris

 

[Mr Bowcat]

No, a flash hider and a muzzle brake are two different things. A muzzle brake ports the gases upwards and to the sides to reduce recoil and avoid muzzle flip.

I have one on my AR-15 and can tell you that they also make the bang even louder.

 

[Ian M]

I read somewhere that flash guards are mostly to protect the gunner from the flash and preserve their night vision.

 

[boatman]

No, a flash hider and a muzzle brake are two different things. A muzzle brake ports the gases upwards and to the sides to reduce recoil and avoid muzzle flip.

I have one on my AR-15 and can tell you that they also make the bang even louder. :smiling3:

AN cheers Bob for your input on info im a little wiser now
chris

 

[boatman]

I read somewhere that flash guards are mostly to protect the gunner from the flash and preserve their night vision.

AN again cheers Ian for that info now can some body put up a pic of this flash guard as again ive never seen one ? or if I have I dint realise what it was
chris

 

[Mini Me]

As an added note, muzzle brakes were critical to some if not all large calibre guns used by the Germans during Ww2. In some cases the gun would actually destroy the mount it was in as a result of uncontrolled recoil. Hence the removal of brakes by the allies on abandoned German armour
Rick H.

 

[boatman]

As an added note, muzzle brakes were critical to some if not all large calibre guns used by the Germans during Ww2. In some cases the gun would actually destroy the mount it was in as a result of uncontrolled recoil. Hence the removal of brakes by the allies on abandoned German armour
Rick H.

Thanks Rick so our side removed the brakes so they could not be used again then is that it ? but its got me thinkin if these guns are are so dangerous how did they manage on big naval guns say 15" like on battle ships as they had no muzzle brakes ?
chris

 

[Guest]

As said, a muzzle brake on a large-calibre gun usually serves mainly to reduce recoil: some of the propellant gases are redirected to the sides and/or the rear, which means they’re not pushing directly backward against the gun or even pushing forward on the muzzle brake. The reason they’re not used on all guns is because those will have a recoil system (hydraulic or hydropneumatic) that is sufficient to take the recoil already; muzzle brakes are then used mainly if a gun with greater recoil is fitted to the same mounting. Probably a good example is the British 6-pounder antitank gun of the Second World War: the Mk. II had no muzzle brake but the Mk. IV did, as it had a longer barrel and so would fire projectiles at higher velocity — which means greater recoil.

The reason modern tank guns don’t use muzzle brakes is because they interfere with APFSDS rounds:

View attachment 365859

You really don’t want the sabots (the bits flying off the penetrator in the photo above) to get caught in the muzzle brake

Also, an interesting anecdote here that I once read, from an ex-Dutch Army AMX-13 commander. He was in an antitank unit, which was on a firing range with some cavalry officers as guests. The cavalry officers went to stand beside the front of the AMX-13 so they could observe the shot; the antitank guys told them that was not a good idea. The cavalry officers responded, basically, with “We’re the cavalry and we’re officers, we will decide where we stand.” “Okay, sure, have it your way” replied the AMX-13 crew, and fired their gun. Which the officers were standing right next to … The cavalry at the time was equipped with either Centurion or Leopard 1 MBTs, both of which had 105 mm L7-series guns — and those don’t have muzzle brakes, so the cavalry officers were used to standing where they did, but weren’t really conscious of the sideways blast that the AMX’s gun has

I read somewhere that flash guards are mostly to protect the gunner from the flash and preserve their night vision.

On rifles, machine guns etc., you mean? Yes, they are. People think they’re intended so that the enemy won’t see the muzzle flash as clearly, but the real reason for flash hiders on small arms is to protect the shooter from the muzzle flash of his or her own weapon.

AN again cheers Ian for that info now can some body put up a pic of this flash guard as again ive never seen one ? or if I have I dint realise what it was

You probably have seen them and not realised what they are Here’s a ZB 26:

View attachment 365862

The flash hider is very simply the cone-shaped thing on the muzzle.

 

[boatman]

MANY THANKS Jakko for that exsplaination I think I now understand cheers
chris

 

[Mini Me]

Chris, Yes in answer to your question. The biggest consideration on the part of the Germans using brakes on armoured vehicles was space constraints. In order for a high velocity gun to have enough room for rearward recoil would require a very large turret, not to mention a huge hydraulic recuperater to further dampen rearward travel of the gun in its mount. Hope this helps. Rick H.
ps, on large naval guns space is not such a large consideration, so recoil dampening was accomplished in the conventional manner.

 

[minitnkr]

A good example also is the 3 barrel WWII German Drilling AAA gun. The center barrel directed flash downwards while the two outboard barrels directed the flash to the respective sides. This was especially important later on with AAA guns when bulky rangefinders were eschewed in favor of following tracer rounds to target. PaulE