discussion Sea Fury Crash Lands - Pilots safe

[AlanG]

Good to see this has ended ok for the aircrew. Aircraft should be recoverable.

Historic Sea Fury plane crashes in Somerset - BBC News

 

[Tim Marlow]

That’s the best that can be hoped for from this event. I saw a TBM Avenger went down in America as well, landed on the sea.

 

[Guest]

What a shame, particularly for the restoration team. Must be heartbroken.

As long as the crew are ok, that’s the main thing.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Just been reported on the local news that the aircraft is unlikely to fly again :disappointed2:

 

[AlanG]

It is repairable but i think the insurers have said it's not to fly again. I'm afraid this is going to happen more and more with vintage aircraft. Even the BBMF is under pressure to permanently 'hangar' their aircraft

 

[Tim Marlow]

I suppose that if you think of it logically, they are approaching eighty years old so it’s not surprising they are hard to insure.

 

[Guest]

It would be a shame if this wasn’t allowed to fly.

Even more so if all aircraft of this era are grounded.

 

[Dave Ward]

Second time the Fury has crashed due to engine failure - it must be increasingly difficult to maintain, not only due to age & scarcity of parts, but lack of experienced engineers. These aircraft/engines have been out of service for 50-odd years, and service manuals can only go so far. There has be a point where a plane has to be retired. I know there are much older aircraft flying, but these are comparatively simple - the newer the plane, the more complex it becomes.
The Centaurus aircraft engine is very complex, only perhaps exceeded by this


The Napier Sabre......................
Dave

 

[Guest]

You're right Dave. There is a point where they are uneconomical to maintain.

I would rather see them retired than retrofitted or reprod with modern engines or motors. Such a thing would just diminish the heritage of these engineering marvels.

Its a shame though. This was a fantastic era for aviation, where the only limits were imagination and necessity was the mother of invention. I find that modern "innovation" is so homogeneous and algorithmic. To deprive all following generations the opportunity to see these aircraft doing what they were designed to do would be a huge loss.

 

[Dave Ward]

You're right Dave. There is a point where they are uneconomical to maintain.

I would rather see them retired than retrofitted or reprod with modern engines or motors. Such a thing would just diminish the heritage of these engineering marvels.

Its a shame though. This was a fantastic era for aviation, where the only limits were imagination and necessity was the mother of invention. I find that modern "innovation" is so homogeneous and algorithmic. To deprive all following generations the opportunity to see these aircraft doing what they were designed to do would be a huge loss.

It's not just a matter of economics, there's a rapidly diminishing skill set! 200 years ago, every town had it's clock & watchmaker - all the movements made by hand, no power tools, no standard measuring system. Now, there are still some watchmakers, but none I bet shun the use of power tools ( let alone electric light ).
Personally, I was proficient in the operation & maintenance of a particular marine diesel engine ( Doxford ),
these engines haven't been made for decades, and I imagine the number of ships fitted with them has just about disappeared. The skill set needed to maintain these oddities will be evaporating, as the relevant engineers die off! You might be able to get away with this on a boat, train, car ( you just stop! ), but an aircraft engine is not like that.......................
Dave

 

[GerryW]

It's not just a matter of economics, there's a rapidly diminishing skill set! 200 years ago, every town had it's clock & watchmaker - all the movements made by hand, no power tools, no standard measuring system. Now, there are still some watchmakers, but none I bet shun the use of power tools ( let alone electric light ).............
Dave

Still not that many 'power tools' available for mechanical watch working (other than a light) - timeographer and demagnifier are about it (many of the watch companies that still make mechanicals are still using '50s and '60s machinery and expertise!), mind you, get onto quartz movements, then you're into all of the tools that you need for any electronic stuff

 

[AlanG]

Whilst we are straying a little from the OT i just have to add something regarding the apparent consensus that there is a fading skill set for these aircraft. Sorry to say but i feel that is utter tosh. As an engineer in the RAF you are taught airframe and propulsion information from piston era and jet era aircraft. From cable pulleys, pneumatics, hydraulics and fly-by-wire. When i did my cross-servicing course for propulsions i was taught about piston, turbo-jet and turbine engines. Whilst experience might be dwindling, knowledge isn't. And when you are posted to a new squadron that uses different aircraft, then you are taught all the information you need. That includes the BBMF. If these aircraft are placed in museums then yes the knowledge will be lost. But whilst they are still flying then the knowledge will be passed onto those willing to learn.

 

[Dave Ward]

Alan,
theoretical knowledge isn't everything, service manuals go a long way, but hands on experience is essential for safe operation. Everybody should know the basic layout & principles, but the minutiae gained by actually working on an engine is priceless - the instruction manual might say 'remove X amount of bolts', but only personal experience will tell you that you have to use a crows' foot spanner on some of the more difficult to reach bits.
Dave

 

[AlanG]

All that can be 'learned' very quickly Dave. I just feel that we are far to negative regarding people's skill sets and willingness to learn these days. My son would jump at the chance to learn this stuff.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Well I’ve learned something. I had to look up crows foot spanner because I hadn’t heard of one....
While I understand what you are saying Dave, I also agree with Alan. I would think that the specialist nature of this knowledge means that the quantity of it available has gone down, but the quality of that now available is far higher. People will be doing this job out of a love of subject, not just as a way of making the rent money. This means the engineer will put everything they have into every job they do, so maintenance will always be carried out to the best of their ability.