discussion Takom Bismarck secondary turret

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Chris, much appreciated.

5.9 inch. Outdated, at a time when battleships were fitting dual purpose secondary batteries. If Bismarck has these he would have been able to use them against the Swordfish??

The whole capital ship idea was outdated by then Bob, let alone the secondaries…..I wonder how many armoured divisions or U boats they could have built with the resources utilised for her and Tirpitz? The model looks great though, I’d forgotten about this one.

 

[BattleshipBob]

The whole capital ship idea was outdated by then Bob, let alone the secondaries…..I wonder how many armoured divisions or U boats they could have built with the resources utilised for her and Tirpitz? The model looks great though, I’d forgotten about this one.

Hi Tim

I think by the mid 1930's the battleship was still considered the queen or King of the seas, all the major nations with the industry and of course cash were busy designing and building modern battleships. Of course with the collapse of the naval treaties the designers were on the loose lol. Of course there were voices about the major threat of aircraft, but they were ignored.

I was watching a YouTube video a few months back, it was a lecturer by a author of a book on why Hitler lost the war, cannot remember his name. It was very good. I was shocked to hear that in 1945 the Germans still had over 400 U boats compared to only about 45 in 1939! The author simply said, what if Hitler had 450 in 1939? In matter of months he could have brought us to our knees. So I totally agree he should not have built Bismarck and Tirpitz, but so glad he did not!!

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Tim

I think by the mid 1930's the battleship was still considered the queen or King of the seas, all the major nations with the industry and of course cash were busy designing and building modern battleships. Of course with the collapse of the naval treaties the designers were on the loose lol. Of course there were voices about the major threat of aircraft, but they were ignored.

I was watching a YouTube video a few months back, it was a lecturer by an author of a book on why Hitler lost the war, cannot remember his name. It was very good. I was shocked to hear that in 1945 the Germans still had over 400 U boats compared to only about 45 in 1939! The author simply said, what if Hitler had 450 in 1939? In matter of months he could have brought us to our knees. So I totally agree he should not have built Bismarck and Tirpitz, but so glad he did not!!

Me too Bob. The really weird one is that the Japanese proved beyond doubt that the age of the big capital ship was over, yet they still poured scarce resources into Yamato and her sister. Two or three fleet carriers and more light cruisers would have suited them far more.

 

[BattleshipBob]

Me too Bob. The really weird one is that the Japanese proved beyond doubt that the age of the big capital ship was over, yet they still poured scarce resources into Yamato and her sister. Two or three fleet carriers and more light cruisers would have suited them far more.

Don't forget Shinano! I read that Yamamoto did his best to stop battleships and estimated that he could have had I think 4 extra fleet carriers for the elite Kido Butai? That would have been a serious problem for US

 

[Tim Marlow]

Don't forget Shinano! I read that Yamamoto did his best to stop battleships and estimated that he could have had I think 4 extra fleet carriers for the elite Kido Butai? That would have been a serious problem for US

It would possibly have given them another year. The other issue they had was aircraft production and replacement pilots, so getting the air groups together would have been difficult. After all, they struggled to recrew after Coral sea, and that was relatively early in the war.

 

[Steve-the-Duck]

The author simply said, what if Hitler had 450 in 1939? In matter of months he could have brought us to our knees. So I totally agree he should not have built Bismarck and Tirpitz, but so glad he did not!!

Wasn't the 'Z' plan supposed to have six battleships, a f'ton of cruisers, and two carriers by 1943? That was when Donitz expected / wanted the war to start

Thankfully, your average dictator doesn't know what fleets are for. Especially when fighting us.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Wasn't the 'Z' plan supposed to have six battleships, a f'ton of cruisers, and two carriers by 1943? That was when Donitz expected / wanted the war to start

Thankfully, your average dictator doesn't know what fleets are for. Especially when fighting us.

….and with the resources and crews of that lot they could’ve built half a dozen more armoured divisions in a quarter of the time and beaten Russia in 1941.….

 

[BattleshipBob]

Hi Steve, would have been Raedar

Not 100% about the actual details. Drach on YouTube has a detailed video about the Z plan.

Hitler and the planners seem to have not taken into account what the UK would have done. I somehow don't think our dockyards would have been building rowing boats lol. We would have outbuit them easily

 

[BattleshipBob]

My you, I would have been happy designing the non existent Z plan compared to the joys of the eastern front!

 

[Steve-the-Duck]

Hi Steve, would have been Raedar

My bad. Donitz was subs chief at the outset?

The German navies NEVER took into account what we thought of other people's fleet building.
"And exactly WHY are you building a fleet across the North Sea from us?" "The Kaiser likes battleships!" "Well then YOU won't mind if we build another two-dozen ourselves"

 

[Tim Marlow]

It was a matter of policy at that time that the British navy was expected to be as big, or bigger, than the next two biggest navies in the world. It was a strategic requirement because 20% of all naval trade in the world, on the eve of war in 1914, was British. Simply can’t imagine the economic power that generated these days.

 

[Steve-the-Duck]

It was a matter of policy at that time that the British navy was expected to be as big, or bigger, than the next two biggest navies in the world. It was a strategic requirement because 20% of all naval trade in the world, on the eve of war in 1914, was British. Simply can’t imagine the economic power that generated these days.

Which is also why, from the late Victorian era, nigh on two-thirds of RN vessels were cruisers of all types, for Imperial trade protection
And then along came torpedo boat destroyers

Ostensibly, into the dreadnought era, secondaries like this are meant to take on the smaller vessels like destroyers
But then, you all knew that