discussion 1/16 Centurion Tank in Paper

[Guest]

This is looking superb.

I like how you have mixed an early style top opening bin with the later side opening type on the left hand track guard.

Daft question time...What Mk of Cent are you doing?

Keep up the good work.

 

[Guest]

well, my primary source of inspiration and information is a Mk 5 or Mk 5.1

...and depending on the Gun barrel I choose, that will decide the final model.

but before you say anything, I will admit my ignorance...and apologize if I really got it wrong.

The goal initially was a Canadian Centurion...all of which seem to be Mk 5s.

(At least all the display units still around are mark fives)

I have the AFV Mk5 plastic kit, which has been my immediate source of visual

reference (when I don't understand shapes and structures).

For photo reference, I have collected a lot of stuff, but mainly I am using the

photos from the Steel Thunder websites. The creator of those sites, Col Filtness,

was a Mk5 Tank driver in Vietnam and has rebuilt many Mk5s for the Tank Museum

in Australia.

Now, I admit, sometimes when looking for reference I refer to other Centurion Marks.

For example, I used vintage photos of the very first Centurions (Mark 1) on the

production line, to understand the bare basic welded Hull assembly.

And a friend just returned from Bovington with a folder full of photos of their Mk3 Centurion.

Thats where I got the idea to use the alternate storage box.

His photos provided me with clearer reference for designing and that odd box just appealed

to me as some sort of visual variety.

View attachment 68266


Sometimes I might put the wrong object or get the parts mixed up between versions

but I look at it this way...I prefer to make things visually more interesting. I will also

change parts to make the model easier ...or more interesting to build.

And I have learned from modeling aircraft, that things weren't always by the book out

in the real world.

When someone comes along and shows me evidence that something is one way and only

one way, then I will design a model that way. The rest of the time, I just do the best with

what little I know and hope its acceptable to most.

View attachment 181292

 

[Guest]

Great reply.

The only difference between Mk3 and Mk5 is the co-axial mg, and the Mk5 could have 1 of 2 types of 20lbr gun barrels.

The Cent from Bovvy that you put in your post is a one off special that was used to trial the fitting of Crocodile flame thrower equipment so some of the fittings on it will not be on the normal gun tanks.

There is a book, written by a Canadian chap you will find useful.

It is called....

The Serious Modellers Guide to:

Canadian Centurion Gun Tanks

It is Volume 1 in the Canadian Armour Series by Barry Beldam.

I find it a great help for modelling Cents.

ISBN 0-9734277-0-1

 

[Guest]

Wow, thanks again for more input!!

And thanks for reminding me about that book again!

I know about that book...its pretty much impossible to find.

When one pops up on ebay, its ridiculously priced.

I have a few pages from it (internet finds).

Differences between Mk 3 and 5...I think I already assumed that.

And I know about the two Gun types.

My pal Col Filtness has set me straight on a few of these facts.

The pics of that Mk 3 have been handy for a few areas...

the side covers and storage boxes,

a few shots up underneath the covers,

and some good vies of the outside exhaust parts

but I am referring to my AFV Mk5 kit for all the small surface details.

 

[Guest]

Took me a week!...off an on over the last seven days, an hour here, an hour there...

but I added a few more Track links.

Got roughly 240mm of Track completed...about 9 inches...

which is close to one quarter of a full Track (for one side of the tank).

lol stop laughing...I'm serious...stop laughing...look

I got so excited at seeing a longer length of Track, that I couldn't help myself...

I just had to take a couple more photos!

Now back to the car race.

 

[Guest]

Step by step this is looking a beauty!

Cheers

 

[Guest]

I bought my copy of that book from Duxford during a Military/Model show many years ago, it cost me £25, worth every penny I reckon.

 

[Guest]

Its been a while since my last Centurion update, lots of other stuff going on this past month.

But I have still been working on the Tank every now and then.

The exhaust parts have been designed for some time...I finally got a chance to test fit them.

A small issue with clearance over the bracketry, but the dimensions and look are good.

The exhaust outlet opening is a little big. The real thing appears to be a much narrower opening.

I haven't decided if I am going to change it yet...I don't want to make it too hard to assemble.

Details are just the basics, since this all gets covered by two heat shields (which I already have made).

So, I will keep working away at this and other surface details.

Haven't done any more Track parts.

But I have begun design work on the Turret.

 

[Ian M]

I find it incredible that this is made from card! Truly brilliant. I don't envy you the track though!!

Ian M

 

[Guest]

thanks Ian

...

Centurion Update...I still haven't completed the Exhaust parts (as were shown in the last updates).

I think I made all the necessary tweaks...I just haven't got around to test final assembly yet.

Reason is...I had a dream involving Paper Glue and Kate Upton...

...and then I woke up and had a big brainstorm regarding the Turret internal formers.

I have been pondering the method of creating the forming structure for the Turret (for some time).

Issue is: how many pieces, how complicated, do I have opening hatchways, can I install an interior?

I did have an idea for a cylinder which would allow the Turret to attach and swivel on the Main Hull

and I could put some interior parts inside that cylinder. But one of the immediate problems is that

the main round hatchway (Commander's position) does not line up with the circular mounting ring

that attaches the Turret to the Hull. In fact you can see how the inner framework blocks a direct

line of sight through the hatch.

So, I had to come up with something different for an internal "former" structure.

Why do I need the internal structure? Because the paper wall construction is obviously not as thick

and rigid as the 4" thick cast metal turret.

And here is where my brainstorm comes in...I imagined a pair of flat plates, held together with a couple

of upright supports. it worked great...unfortunately the upper plate blocked the hatchway almost completely.

So a quick redesign, resulted in a three plate design that leaves the hatchway clear for stuff.

Uses the minimum amount of 1mm card with notches for all the uprights for added strength.

The Turret "skin" took a few reworks before I got to this final look.

The layout was simple enough once I analyzed the overall shape of the bare Turret.

First thing I need to let go of is the curves in the cast metal Turret. Turning everything into angled

connections between flat surfaces, simplified the whole design.

Theres a couple of tricky areas but most goes together quite easily. (Nine main parts build the turret.)

I also found I could put a lot of the curves back in once parts had been securely glued. Just a case

of running a curved tool across the seams from the inside. Pressing hard against the cutting mat, most

of the joints are smoothed out and can be rounded quite easily.

 

[Guest]

Turret Update continued...

once the former and "skin" are completed they are ready to "mate".

Simple fold over tabs will lock the skin to the bottom plate and the internal structure

is not a tight fit...just enough to hold the skin in the correct shape.

You can see I have also added the mounting rings.

This tabbed ring will fit into the tabbed hole in the Main Hull.

There are two rings provided, but you need to build up enough layers to create the necessary

thickness and offset of these rings.

Most annoying part was sanding the rings until they fit into the Main Hull opening easily.

But it was also important not to make the fit too sloppy, so it took time to get it just right.

And here it is...the basic cast Turret.

Obviously there are a lot of attachments and additional parts to go on. The Centurion has large

storage boxes attached around the Turret, hiding its true shape.

Next I will sort out the Gun Mantel...the goal is a tilting Gun, but I already see some of the internal

structure is in the way. So, it calls for some more brainstorming.

 

[Guest]

last Turret update (for now)...

I am probably going to put the Turret aside now and go back to finishing the Exhaust system.

I've also got a few other Hull surface items to deal with.

In the meantime, heres a couple of shots of the bare Turret installed into the Hull.

yes, it swivels.

 

[Guest]

fantastic detail in paper,and again i say `(paper)`lol

 

[Guest]

It looks awesome.

Great work.

 

[Guest]

just finishing up the exhaust...

seems a shame to build the exhaust and then cover it over!

but, I guess the builder will know whats under there.

and, if you wanted to build this thing as some sort of diorama

with parts disassembled, or maybe undergoing repairs...then

you have something to work with.

 

[flyjoe180]

Wow, stunning work

 

[Guest]

quick update...more stuff coming

this past month has been busy

and just got back from paper model convention

so not much progress on the Tank.

stay tuned

 

[Guest]

Excellent work

 

[Guest]

Superb stuff as usual.

Can I just point out that you seem to have overlooked the Aux. Generator exhaust on the left hand side.

It is under the main exhaust outlet pipe and exits through a notch cut out of the protective plate at the end near the main silencer.

Keep up the good work. Loving it

 

[Guest]

Nope, nothing overlooked.

I think you'll find a lot of details missing at this point.

Right now I am focused on the biggest and most important stuff.

A lot of stuff will be left to the end,

and things that need to go in early I will come back to, before I get too far.

I have photos of the small exhaust for reference and I will eventually

get around to putting it in place.

And yes, there are some things that I will not bother with. Details that I will

leave up to each builder. For example, I did not understand where the exhaust

pipes ran inside the engine bay and at first I created a simple pipe that is almost

hidden at the back of the engine.

Now that the external exhaust is in place I have decided to omit the pipes completely

since it will require some redesign of engine bay parts. *Detailing the engine bay was

a late decision and I didn't want to get too carried away with details and accuracy. So

its not worth it for me to start redesigning just for a hidden exhaust pipe.