discussion Academy 1:48 P 47D "Nose art"

[mossiepilot]

This is going to be my next project - View attachment 48284

The sprues are clean and flash free and the surface detail is really good

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Don't know if I am missing something but one of the sprues, the one with all the armourment, has been duplicated - View attachment 48279 - also this kit has three sets of wheels ?

View attachment 48281View attachment 48282View attachment 48283 - Not sure which scheme I will do, the box art "Big Ass Bird" was what caught my eye, but the one with the indians head looks good too.

One thing though, the weapons options is big and at the moment I'm leaning towards the rocket pack with the largest fuel tank, and there is a set of rockets but no rails, any idea why.

More soon.

Tony.

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[Vaughan]

Tony I think you'll find this is normal for Academy kits to provide extra sets of wheels and I can see from your photos one set of wheels have flats on them. Looks like a good kit looking forward to seeing this one built.

Vaughan

 

[stona]

The USAAF did not use rockets much in Europe. The first rocket firing P-47s became operational in July 1944 but only carried four 5" HVARs. This was later increased to ten.

The 9th AF fired a total of 13,959 rockets during the war which may sound a lot but pales beside the 222,512 fired by the RAF 2nd TAF.

The USAAF preferred to use napalm.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

The bubbletop P47 is a thing of beauty, and I've seen good reviews of the Academy 1/48 version. I enjoyed their 1/72 model. I'll watch this one with interest.

 

[mossiepilot]

Hey, I hadn't noticed that Vaughan, thanks, that'll save a bit of work.

Thanks for the info Steve, but I think I'll still be using rocket launcher just cos I like how they look :yes:

Just a quick question, what colour is the interior, the plan says interior green but on some of the net reference photos it looks zinc chromate green, any advice on this please.

Tony.

 

[AlanG]

i used vallejo zinc chromate green on my P-47D

 

[mossiepilot]

Mmmm... Thats what I thought but the plans clearly state interior green, odd.

These are the references Republic P-47D Thunderbolt Cockpit by David Castro (Tamiya 1/48) and P-47D/N Cockpit Color Pic?

Just a matter of "you pays your money and you takes your choice" you think.

Tony.

 

[stona]

It's not "interior green" in the sense of the grey/green colour used by the British. It's one of the much darker US greens.

Have a look here,a site run by a friend of mine.

P47 Heaven :: AeroScale's Special Interest Group for the P47 Thunderbolt

I'll ask him directly for you too.

Cheers

Steve

 

[mossiepilot]

Thanks for the link Steve, thats a really good site.

At the moment I'm doing it with zinc chromate undercoated with interior green to darken it a bit.

I'll post some pictures soon to let you see.

Tony.

 

[stona]

Hi Tony, Nigel (Lampie) got back to me with the following info.

"Correct interior colour for P-47s this week is green tinted zinc cromate.

The more evidence that comes to light the more the dark dull green theory is being shot down in flames.

Rockets?..D'you mean the triple type M10 "bazooka" tubes or the HVAR?

406th FG are usually seen with just the wing pylons.

Some 9th air force group used the HVAR for a short time but these weren't popular with pilots as they were situated under the ejection ports

for the .50 cal shell casings which would break the firing wires when exiting the aircraft.

Consequently, the rockets had to be fired first before using the.50cal.

Not the best way of going about things.

The 8th didn't use the M10's very much at all, and I believe a few 9th units may have used them briefly but they weren't very popular.

Used much more in Italy than our area of operations."

Hope this helps,or is at least of interest

Cheers

Steve

 

[mossiepilot]

Thanks for the info Steve. Yes I can see why they weren't popular, I'd wondered about shell cases hitting the tubes.

I had a go at the interior colour, I'll post some photos later.

Another question, all the photos I've looked at show the undercarriage legs with no extension showing. Was the hydralic systen run off the engine, so when the engine wasn't running the pressure bled off and the shock absorbers didn't show, if you understand what I'm waffling about?

Any help would be gratefully received.

Tony.

 

[Dave W]

Aircraft Undercarriage legs (or oleo's) are not connected to the hydraulic system.On modern aircraft they are independent units filled with oil and nitrogen.Not sure about the P47 but suspect they would be similar.In which case,the leg would be extended showing a lot of the shinny bit when the aircraft returned from a mission minus the weight of bombs,bullets and fuel.Then when the aircraft was loaded up for the next mission the legs would compress again.there would still be a small shinny bit visible though.

 

[stona]

Dave is correct though I'm not sure exactly which version of the system the P-47 used either.

I know it was a complicated air/oil one,the legs actually lengthened after they left the wheel wells. Looking at it the other way the leg was shortened,mechanically by a fancy arrangement of struts,certainly not hydraulically,as it went up into the wheel well. I've had this explained to me (probably by Nigel) but I'm b*ggered if I can remember exactly how it worked! It does involve the air in the system being displaced to another chamber within the leg as the piston is compressed.

In any case there would certainly be a section of the shiny piston showing with the undercarriage down. If there wasn't and the system was collapsed then the propeller would hit the ground!

It is hard to see in photographs because the gear doors cover it from an "outside" view and the relatively large main wheels cover it from the other side.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Vaughan]

Hi Tony I found this info on the web not sure if it helps

"Main Landing Gear

The full cantilever, hydraulically-controlled main landing gear of this airplane consists of independent right and left hand units of air-oil combination shock strut assemblies and extra high pressure cast magnesium wheels of drop center rim type.

A box-like structure of four cast magnesium plates, two of which serve as trunnions, supports each shock strut assembly. The box assembly fits into a well, formed by rib 86, rib 104, and the landing gear auxiliary spar, and is supported by four bolts through each of the ribs and adjacent plates.

Before the gear starts its retraction cycle, hydraulic pressure is applied to withdraw a nitrided steel downlocking pin from a housing in the downlocking arm of the strut; a mechanically operated sequence valve is then opened to admit pressure to the landing gear retraction cylinder.

During retraction, the shock strut piston is telescoped to the bottoming position so that at the completion of the "up" cycle the gear will fit into a well which is 9" shorter than would be necessary for conventional "up-positioning" of the gear. The telescoping is accomplished by the "geometry" of the mechanism which employs a shrinkage strut or rod; one end of this rod is attached to the shock strut piston and the other pivoted about an axis outboard and below that of the landing gear pivot axis. Geometrically, the shock strut and shrinkage strut can be considered as radial elements from different radii terminating at the lower end of the shock strut piston housing and the lower end of the piston respectively. The radii (landing gear and shrinkage strut pivot axes) are spaced so that the difference in the loci at approximately 0° (landing gear down) is almost zero and the difference between loci at approximately - 90°(landing gear up) is about 9".

As the piston telescopes, the air in the air-oil chamber of the shock strut is displaced by the oil and is transferred to an auxiliary air chamber above the air-oil chamber in the strut. An air valve, actuated by a push rod following a cam track above the strut, opens the auxiliary air chamber." Hope this helps.

Here's a photo that I took of the P47D at Duxford and as you can see there is no leg extension showing.

Vaughan

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[stona]

Vaughan that leg is collapsed or "deflated". Look at how the scissor link is compressed. Looking from the other side would show a large overlap between the upper and lower elements of the gear door too.

I've flicked through all my P-47 references,hundreds of photos,and the few that do show this area clearly show a few inches of the piston between the scissor links. It's surprisingly little but it's there.

Thanks for posting that explanation of the contraction system though I'm more confused now than I was before

Cheers

Steve

 

[Vaughan]

Thanks for pointing that one out Steve there is a large overlap(see picture from a different angle). Here's a photo of a Thunderbolt in the National Museum in America it too has a collapsed leg. I did managed to find this image with the scissor link less compressed this being on a plane that was active.

Vaughan

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[colin m]

Under normal operation, there has to be some 'shiny' metal showing. The leg has to extend and contract (just like a car damper) when riding over rough ground.

 

[stona]

Under normal operation, there has to be some 'shiny' metal showing. The leg has to extend and contract (just like a car damper) when riding over rough ground.

Indeed.

I'll post a diagram of an air/oil damped undercarriage leg,the leg developed by Elektron and used on most German aircraft of this period. It is based on the leg designed by Vickers.

All the notation is in German I'm afraid but you get the idea.

Edit

Here ya go.

Cheers

Steve

 

[mossiepilot]

Thanks for all the info guys. So a bit of the telescoping piston needs to show of the model I'm doing.

These are the images that prompted me to ask the question - View attachment 48627View attachment 48628 - they are from two different walkarounds on two different sites. They have caused me a bit of confusion because I thought the same as you guys til I saw them, so I thought I would ask.

Tony.

Sorry the photos are so small.

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[stona]

Museum aircraft are very often presented like this with unpressurised oleos. You can see in the diagram I posted that the air pressure in the legs was from 40-50 atmospheres "je nach flugzeuggewicht-according to the aircraft weight" (around 600 psi) which might have the 'elf and safety men in a tiz.

Since they are unlikely to be rumbling over an unmade airfield anytime soon it doesn't matter.

Cheers

Steve