discussion Airborne in a Philosophical Moment

[Airborne01]

I'm amazed I spelled the big 'P' word correctly, but seriously though - I look at our representations of aircraft, AFVs, ships etc, I look at famous types, names, and all the other permutations of our modelling and I wonder whether we ever really think of the history or the human impact of the moments we try to represent. It's quite sobering I think to realise these may actually reflect so much pain, suffering. bravery, heroism. loss, comradeship and humanity over decades of time. For my part it spurs me to try and represent those values when I attempt my modeiling. Sorry, just needed to share my thoughts
Steve

 

[minitnkr]

Our visits to the European museums & WWII battle sites that inspired me to model brought home those thoughts big time. The hospitality afforded us & reverence for the non-native dead evidenced was inspiring.

 

[Geoffers]

Interesting post Steve, pretty much my mindset too

My main interest is WW2 allied aircraft and my builds are tributes, in a small way to the men who fought for freedom in those dark days.

It is why I don’t build Axis aircraft, I realise that a lot of the pilots/crews were equally brave and arguments can be made regarding bad behaviour on both sides it’s just I don’t want to legitimise the regimes they fought for.

I’m not judging anyone who does want to build Axis machines by the way, it’s just my personal feelings.

Geoff.

 

[Tim Marlow]

This is a real food for thought post. Well done buddy.
For my part, I do broadly think in this way. I took a personal decision many years ago to not depict anything operated by the Waffen SS, for example. However, I do occasionally depict other WW2 German machines, despite them being an agent of one of the more evil regimes of the twentieth century.

Most of my current interest comes from depicting objects from a previous age. I rarely model anything built in my own lifetime now I have given up railway modelling, and even then I was drawn more to the Edwardian age than anything else. In fact, most of my recent modelling time has come from building and painting fantasy figures loosely based on the Dark ages.

There is always this niggling doubt about what I am spending time and energy on recreating though. At the bottom line, these things are designed to try and kill others more efficiently than anything the other side might have. I have tried modelling motor bikes and cars, but in both cases they do not really leave me with fulfilment. I find both the strategic and tactical aspects of war endlessly fascinating, having a secondary hobby of war gaming. I can’t reconcile that with my core beliefs though because at heart I’m a pacifist that believes sending people out with guns to kill each other is an absolutely ridiculous way to try and solve international disputes.

I make models because I find the process of creating miniature facsimiles of full sized objects quite satisfying, but as to what I make, well that seems to be driven by the inner ten year old who wants everything to have more guns…….and he always wins out over the adult that occasionally thinks “is this a good use of my time?”. Probably not going to change now though. After all, it’s a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world except for Lola……

 

[wotan]

Lo Lo Lo Lo Lola......

I'm with you Tim. I don't build much these days but I do draw and paint, with my latest interest being fantasy world (LOTR) comic graphics., and character design. I was always lead to believe that building models was an attempt to get some control over the (small) world when the real world is too big and threatening. I still think this is true to some extent but it is definitely more than that. Creativity, showmanship and manual dexterity are all part of the package. In this regard the actual subject matter of the model is less relevant than the satisfaction obtained from the actual building, or in my case drawing.

Having said that I know subjects loosely taken from history or the dark ages definitely reflect an affection for simpler times.

John

 

[Lee W]

Hello people, it's been a while since I've posted so thought I'd comment here.
As some of you are aware I build allied (I don't build soviet/Russian, I don't like their vehicles... although I have a Zvezda soviet truck in my stash!) and axis (mainly german but just recently finished Tamiya Chi Ha!) vehicles and figures, yes I think, wow that happened or wow they used that vehicle but it's history good or bad, right or wrong, I build them because it's an interest and it's history... now my current build is waaaaaayyyyyy out of my comfort and knowledge zone, I'm building a Massey Ferguson 2680 from Heller... eh! Well it was given to me so why not?!

 

[Airborne01]

Hello people, it's been a while since I've posted so thought I'd comment here.
As some of you are aware I build allied (I don't build soviet/Russian, I don't like their vehicles... although I have a Zvezda soviet truck in my stash!) and axis (mainly german but just recently finished Tamiya Chi Ha!) vehicles and figures, yes I think, wow that happened or wow they used that vehicle but it's history good or bad, right or wrong, I build them because it's an interest and it's history... now my current build is waaaaaayyyyyy out of my comfort and knowledge zone, I'm building a Massey Ferguson 2680 from Heller... eh! Well it was given to me so why not?!

Good to renew old friendships Lee; and I love your avatar, very apt for this discussion,
Steve

 

[pjgtech]

As above, an interesting and thought provoking post.

Personally I have always had a fascination with WW2. My Dad fought in Burma, at Kohima, and I had a couple of Uncles who also fought in WW2.
None of them talked about it much. They are all gone now, and I now wished I knew more about what they did, and went through, (I know a little, but not all).

But my childhood was filled with WW2 stuff, it was still relatively recent (60/70's) including, films, comics, books, toys, models, etc.
So I tended (when young) to build WW2 stuff, planes and tanks, etc.
As a relative latecomer back to the hobby, I am still mostly drawn to WW2 stuff.

But for me I'm not trying to pay tribute to those that fought and/or died. For me it is just a pleasurable pastime/hobby.
When I was a kid my models were crude at best, badly built and badly painted, no weathering, but I was young, so....
Now I'm back into it, I do try to be a better model maker, take a bit more time, bit more care, etc.
I am lucky enough to have spare time/cash to be able to partake in this hobby I like, (plus a few others).
But it is a hobby for me, not for others.

But I know that others do spend a lot of time, and do a lot of research, and want to portray an accurate representation of a particular vehicle, that did a particular thing, during a particular period or event. More power to your elbows if thats your thing.

 

[PaulTRose]

Dont shout at me....im going to be devils advocate here....you will see why

It all depends how far you take it

If you wont build axis vehicles do you also not build soviet since stalinist russia was just as bad?......if you wont build luftwaffe do you also not build raf/usaaf bombers cos of the dresden/toyko fire bombings or dropping the nukes?......if you do american civil war stuff do you not do the union since they were pro slavery?

My personal view is they should be built.....for a variety of reasons

Im 4th generation british military.......dad was ww2......granddad was ww1 gt granddad was in china to put down the boxers so military history has always been a part of my life

I like german vehicles for their interesting technology and designs.......just like i do british or american or french or russian

Im against the current wokeness thing of cancelling out history 'cos it offends someone'........history needs to be remembered........so the bad bits dont happen again!....people need to be offended rather than not know

 

[Airborne01]

Dont shout at me....im going to be devils advocate here....you will see why

It all depends how far you take it

If you wont build axis vehicles do you also not build soviet since stalinist russia was just as bad?......if you wont build luftwaffe do you also not build raf/usaaf bombers cos of the dresden/toyko fire bombings or dropping the nukes?......if you do american civil war stuff do you not do the union since they were pro slavery?

My personal view is they should be built.....for a variety of reasons

Im 4th generation british military.......dad was ww2......granddad was ww1 gt granddad was in china to put down the boxers so military history has always been a part of my life

I like german vehicles for their interesting technology and designs.......just like i do british or american or french or russian

Im against the current wokeness thing of cancelling out history 'cos it offends someone'........history needs to be remembered........so the bad bits dont happen again!....people need to be offended rather than not know

...study the past if you would divine the future ... perhaps?
Steve

 

[Tim Marlow]

This is starting to veer well off topic I think. Still, in the same vein, and I’m really not trying to upset people, just saying it as I see it. The saying (in various iterations and attributed to many speakers) goes that “those that don’t understand history are doomed to repeat it.” However, history is one of those words that has many and varied uses depending upon the particular point the speaker is trying to make. That use does not improve understanding, even from learned historians. They have an agenda to advance as much as anyone else. It is a truism therefore that history’s various tropes and effects get repeated at regular intervals, with a few detail differences, because wider understanding is simply not there at any level of society.

What most people think of as “history” (with a small h) is really the effect on ordinary folk of wider Historical (with an uppercase H) events. This is not History. To truly understand History you have to dig deeper than a relatives, or even a populations, folk memory experience and look at the sociopolitical situation extant at the time. You need to know what events caused those conditions, and then evaluate the way it eventually impacted on those affected. If you understand the causes you can mitigate against, or prevent altogether, those effects. Unfortunately this is a very complex and imperfect science, so almost never happens.

When we make models we are not recreating history in any real sense. We are simply recreating in miniature an artefact from a time period. We don’t improve understanding of history by explaining the reasons such a device existed, or most of the time even how it was used. We just illustrate what it looked like, and sometimes what the effect of that device could be. Models, therefore, do no more than illustrate the physical appearance of an artefact. We are not recreating history, and to say so gives the hobby an import greater than it deserves. We make models simply because we enjoy it, and long may that continue….

 

[Neil Merryweather]

Blimey Tim
Philosophical indeed!

 

[Airborne01]

May I suggest that we've given some consideration to the issues I raised initially and now it's time to move on to more enervating topics such as plastic bashing?
Steve

 

[HAWKERHUNTER]

May I suggest that we've given some consideration to the issues I raised initially and now it's time to move on to more enervating topics such as plastic bashing?
Steve

I think you got your answer Steve. Clearly there is a lot of emotion and passion that is felt by the members what ever direction they choose to follow. It's that passion that produces some of the remarkable results that we see, but like you say perhaps time to move on to more lighter subject matters, after all its nearly Christmas

 

[pjgtech]

Can I just add.....if you really want to get philosophical.....

42

 

[Tim Marlow]

Can I just add.....if you really want to get philosophical.....

42

If you add in the transfers, that’s probably how many parts there are in an Airfix spitfire…..seems apt if you ask me….

 

[Miko]

Interesting? My modelling philosophy (I've posted on this previously somewhere in here?) is I don't 'arm' my builds with bombs rockets missiles etc, not that I'm particularly of a pacifistic nature, sometimes warfare is the best solution. It's that I like the look of of my main modelling interest, aircraft, in 'clean' configuration or in a 'showroom' fresh out of the factory appearance. I built camouflaged and dull grey aircraft for most of my modelling life but now I prefer more interesting prototypes and research and development aircraft that tend to be more colourful.

My builds are a personal 'homage' to the clever boffins who create these technical marvels and not so much those who operate them in their intended purpose

I'm not sure I would have a conscience about building the assets of the most evil of axis powers, being a 'what if?' builder that is a distinct possibility!
I somehow managed to have a 1/48 Ju87 Stuka in the stash, not my scale or era at all really, so my 'what if' imagination is to build this most sinister looking aircraft and potent symbol of Nazism as a harmless and kawaii cute girlie model in bubble gum pink with hearts and flowers! I wonder what Hugo Junkers would've thought?

Miko (thinking out of the box that the box is kept in!)