discussion Airfix 1:48 Bf109 (New Tool)

[Guest]

Cheers for that Steve, especially as I have put the 'bracket' on for the drop tank :laughing: I am doing the E4, the Galland plane and it is that and the E3 that the instructions call for the tank. Ohhhh Deeeeeeer. Not much chance of getting the bracket of without damage so i may just leave that on and not fit the tank. Lesser of two evils?

 

[stona]

Hi again Graham, if by "bracket" you mean the ETC rack that's fine. The earlier dash numbers could take the rack to carry a bomb in their jabo (fighter bomber) role. They lacked the plumbing to access fuel carried in a drop tank. Airfix have definitely made a boo boo with that instruction. The Luftwaffe played with a wooden disposable tank for the Bf109 at this time but it proved very unpopular. Some test pilots seem to have seen fitting it as equivalent to lighting a fuse to blow up their aircraft! I've never seen a BOB era Bf109 with a drop tank. Infact they don't really seem to appear regularly until much later (1942) on the F series and Fw190A-4s. These aircraft came out of the factory with the relevant plumbing and of course the familiar aluminium tank(s) had been developed.

I'm going to have a quick look on my HD for a piccy of an E-4 (ish) BOB era Bf109 with the rack on to make you feel better!!! Then I'll try and find a Galland one with rack!

Cheers

Steve

 

[stona]

Here's a nice one of a fighter bombing Bf109-E c/w rack and bomb.That should cheer you up chap!

Steve

 

[Guest]

Totally different racking system Tony. It does come with the bomb rack which is an elongated flat box shape. The drop tank rack is smaller and rounded, bit of a tear drop shape with the pointed end facing aft. May try to unglue it with liquid polly later but I am not convinced it will not leave some damage.

 

[stona]

I'm going from only what I have on my computer Graham but I think Airfix have got that correct. I thought it was essentially the same rack bolted to the aircraft with different fairings and sway braces, but that may have been later. It's frustrating not having access to my books! I managed to find a few of images showing the two systems on the -E.

The source says that the drop tank is on an E-7, which is brave,but as I said before they were retrofitted. It's hard to say exactly what specification many aircraft were supposed to be from a piccy!

Imagine the consequences of the Bf109s flying in the BOB having had a drop tank. They may have been serious. Until the BOB the limited range of the fighter had not been an issue as it only had to secure air superiority immiediately ahead of the army to allow the medium/dive bombers to operate effectively as long range artillery. (Why were the Germans so obsessed with dive bombing?....maybe another time.)They never achieved this over England which may be just as well.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Yep, That top image is the one Steve. I think it will have to stay on but no tank fitted, no one will notice lol. As always, great info bud

 

[stona]

Yep, That top image is the one Steve. I think it will have to stay on but no tank fitted, no one will notice lol.

And why not? Missions must have been flown with the rack on and no bomb! The rack is fairly easy to remove but I don't believe they would have done it every time it wasn't required.

You've got a nice build going on there,looking forward to seeing the finished result.

Cheers

Steve

 

[stona]

Here's a good one of a drop tank on a Bf109E-7 of JG26. It is from late 1940 or early 1941 making this very early use of the aluminium tank. I now think that maybe the E-7 was the first to have the plumbing rather than the E-9 as I have found several such references. I'l know for sure when I get home in a couple of weeks!

According to my notes this is from volume 1 of the Kagero JG26 books.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Managed to get a bit more done tonight. No modelling all weekend again, getting behind with everything. Roll on winter......

The tabs sticking out of the canopy are to enable a strong open position, you would cut them off if having the canopy closed. Cowling not glued on and rudder missing as it will be yellow and a pig to mask in place. All primed up and ready to go.

The underside with the, sadly, erroneous drop tank rack which resisted all attempts to get it off.

Painting the camo will be a first for me as it is straight edged sharp pattern so for the first time, I will have to mask the pattern off Should be fun......

 

[Guest]

OK, you've done it now sonny, was 'shall I, Shan't I' ing this one since you started the thread and thinking, well i've got an older one to build anyway but the latest pics are just too much, gone and ordered one and it's all your fault, (that's what i'll tell the missis)

Just hope mine will be as nice as yours is starting to look, that engine looks cracking, a nice patina to it, (oo-er big words at this time of night)

 

[Guest]

Yeah, blame me, I am used to it Mike lol. Only thing I cannot stress to much with this kit is the thickness of the sprues where the parts attach. I have fond that with smaller parts, and some bigger, that the best way is to clip off the part by cutting and retaining a bit of sprue, i.e. don't cut close to the part. Once you have this part with sticky out sprue bits, get it flat on the bench and cut off the sticky out bits with a knife. Being a new mould, this is a very tight kit. If something does not appear to fit right, it is only because you a=have not cleaned it up properly. Press the fuselage halves together and it is a real job separating them again lol

 

[stona]

Looking really good Graham. The camo is a doddle to mask,I've done a few! The hardest bit is getting the mottle to look right,not too dense but not too fine either. Are you doing Galland's machine? I'm guessing,from the time,that it would be W.Nr 5819. If so I've got a few piccies of that machine on this very computer. The Airfix profile looks very good though.

(I know he flew a W.Nr 5966? (old memory) but I think that was an E-7)

Cheers

Steve

I've done some drop tank digging.DEFINITELY the E-7 was factory equipped equipped to carry the alloy 300l tank included,for some reason, in this kit. According to Galland himself the E-7 reached his unit (JG26) in early November 1940. This puts them technically outside the period called the BOB by the British.The drop tank installation was not a field modification. It was a factory conversion, resulting in a new designation. E-4 became E-7, E-1 became E-8, E-6 became E-9. This maybe why I was a little confused over my E numbers earlier!

Interestingly some aircraft may have been rigged up with the ability to use a tank earlier,though they were not used during the battle. One problem with effecively doubling the Bf109Es endurance from 1.5 to 3 hours was a lack of oil capacity. An interesting feature discovered in the wreckage of a crashed Bf109E in February 1940 was a tap in the cockpit with instructions to pump over extra oil after 1.5 hours flight.

Anyway,the upshot of all this is that BOB period Bf109Es did not carry drop tanks.

Incidentally people building "defense of the Reich" fighters nearly always fit the drop tank. They've got an,at best, 50 percent chance of being correct as,according to captured Luftwaffe pilots, they were only ever fitted for the first interception of the day. Subsequently the Luftwaffe expected to get a whole Gruppe re-armed,re-fuelled and airborne in less than half an hour,hence no drop tanks.

Here is a page from a large U.S.8th airforce document compiled on Luftwaffe (GAF) tactics from POWs etc. It comes from the section headed "Interception Procedure"

It's there in black and white!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

It is indeed W.Nr 5819 Steve with the "Micky Mouse" cartoon on it from JG26 that I will be doing the model as. Airfix class it as a 109E-4/N.Strange camo in that there is part of the splinter that comes over the top of the fuselage behind the cockpit but most of the top is in the colour of the sides. As you say, getting the mottle right will be the hardest bit but, hey, who wants easy...........

Quality information as always Steve

EDIT, put on hold for couple of days, had to order some paint from John. Talk about forward planning lol.

 

[stona]

The central part of the spine shouldn't be the same colour as the sides! It should be RLM02.That camouflage was factory applied with the high demarcation line. Only the various mottling and overspray was applied later. It would have looked something like this (with the exception of the fin/rudder which they are mucking about with).

You can see in this image of your subject that the colour on the spine of the aircraft above the balkenkreuz is not the same as that on the sides,they are RLM02 and RLM65 respectively. The sharp demarcation line has been intentionally blurred when the mottle was applied.

Here is an illustration of the factory scheme before the squadrons sprayed all over the sides.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Cheers for that Steve. You have clarified what Airfix do show but for some reason, I did not spot. In the colour diagram, the green does continue as a sharp splinter behind the canopy but I had misread the colour behind that up to the tail. I thought it was the side colour but it is in fact as you say, the lighter colour of the wing.

No fault of Airfix's, just me not looking close enough. Cheers for that, and thanks for the help in getting the best out of this lovely kit, much appreciated.

Good to see Steven Fry in the cockpit again (last B&W picture)

 

[stona]

No worries. I've also noticed looking at several pictures that you don't need to apply all the little frame numbers along the lower part of the fuselage. They dissapear (oversprayed) quite early on in this aircraft's carreer! I hate those bl**dy things,even in !/32 scale.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Well, as usual, I could have set my watch by the arrival of the paint from the shop. Cheers John, bang on time again. Progress will begin again shortly.

 

[yak face]

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No worries. I've also noticed looking at several pictures that you don't need to apply all the little frame numbers along the lower part of the fuselage. They dissapear (oversprayed) quite early on in this aircraft's carreer! I hate those bl**dy things,even in !/32 scale. AARRGGH!! now i find out! those tiny little numbers on the italeri 1/72 bf109f-4 were a nightmare, still , good to see theyre putting that amount of detail on a 1/72 decal sheet. Just to make it authentic though graham, youve got to apply all the tiny numbers,in the right order of course,then spray over them LOL!!!!!!! cheers tony

 

[Guest]

youve got to apply all the tiny numbers,in the right order of course,then spray over them LOL!!!!!!!

Mmmm, cannot wait for that insane little pleasure..... Anyway, a little progress, I have sprayed the RLM65 Hellblau and it is looking very sweet with a bit of colour on it. I just love those Xrtracrylix paints, they airbrush so nicely.

 

[AlanG]

What do you use to thin them Graham?