discussion Any suggestions for this camo pattern??

[Guest]

Hi all;

I came across this interesting picture yesterday:

View attachment 25956

It shows a captured FW 190F-8 in the markings of 41 Sqn RAF in 1945. As I used to serve on 41 Sqn, I'd like to model this aircraft. Does anyone have an opinion on the paint scheme - the pattern doesn't look like standard Luftwaffe, so was it a locally-applied RAF one? Having said that, in the original pic you can clearly see a German number 1 in black under the Question Mark, so it seems like it hasn't been repainted. What about the colours - looks like RAF late war grey/green, but if it is a Luftwaffe pattern, then presumably its RLM shades. Any help welcomed!!

View attachment 32064

View attachment 145090

 

[Ian M]

I would not like to put money on it but that code looks like a photoshop job. Its to white, to clean and to strait!

This might be worth searching down. The small photo of the FW in RAF paint was the inspiration for my build in the First ever Group build on this forum.

Internet Modeler Captured Butcherbirds Vol.1

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Ian M

 

[stona]

I'm stuck in a rehearsal studio with a bunch of tone deaf Irish chancers (you can guess who!) at the moment so I can't look this one up for you. However captured aircraft were usually repainted in grey/green uppers although sometimes dark earth/green. This camouflage didn't follow the original demarcations. The undersides were usually repainted in yellow and I remember a Bf109G with black stripes on the underside as well. Often Luftwaffe numbers and even emblems were left alone. These aircraft were not assigned to a squadron and I can't remember any bearing RAF squadron codes. They did get an RAF serial number applied,as in the photos below,in the normal RAF position.

Here's a well known Bf109.

Before

After

And underside

I'd say this was fairly typical

Cheers

Steve

 

[spanner570]

I would not like to put money on it but that code looks like a photoshop job. Its to white, to clean and to strait!This might be worth searching down. The small photo of the FW in RAF paint was the inspiration for my build in the First ever Group build on this forum.

Internet Modeler Captured Butcherbirds Vol.1

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Ian M

Yes, deffo. a photoshop effort, and a very poor one at that!...The letters are flat and are nowhere near the bend of the airframe....Well spotted that man!

Ron

 

[Guest]

There was a 190 "Anton 3"Wn(5)313 that was painted in RAF collours It's side # was MP499.

There is a pix of it in "Aircraft of the aces- volume 6"

Theuns

 

[stona]

There was a 190 "Anton 3"Wn(5)313 that was painted in RAF collours It's side # was MP499.There is a pix of it in "Aircraft of the aces- volume 6"

Theuns

That was Faber's aircraft,he landed "by mistake" at Pembrey in Wales in June 1942. It was a Focke-Wulf Fw190A-3, W.Nr.313 marked single chevron of III./JG2. It made about 30 flights (from memory) for the RAF before being struck of charge in 1943. This incident led directly to the RAF rushing the stop gap SpitfireIX into service. Some stop gap!

Here it is.

Dark Earth/Dark Green upper surfaces on this one by the way.

Great game of cricket earlier,albeit the wrong result for SA.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

The picture is in Captured Butcherbirds Vol 2; I don't think it is a photoshop job - it's just a high contrast image.

 

[stona]

It's frustrating being away from my books! Is it a post war picture? I've seen some coded unofficially after "liberation" Like this one.

The code is for Wing Commander J.F.Edwards of 127 wing. He was a wing commander so he could probably mark his prize however he liked! I think this is from Vol1 of the "Captured Butcherbirds" series.

I did find this one on my computer presumably from 182 Sqn. so the form of coding is not unique.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I'd say from the look it has been overpainted and that's either a grey/green or earth/green

Of course, if you're really unsure you could just paint it dark grey and light grey as per the pic

 

[Guest]

Yes, deffo. a photoshop effort, and a very poor one at that!...The letters are flat and are nowhere near the bend of the airframe....Well spotted that man!Ron

Utter nonsense; the photo appeared in an Australian IPMS magazine, around 1970, which, I think you'll find, predates photoshop by quite a margin. The aircraft was captured (or the pilot surrendered) while the Squadron was at Eindhoven, and, in a 1980(ish) book, on German aircraft, another photo appeared, probably from just post-war, since the Squadron's Spitfires are in a straight line, with the 190 at the end (hardly wartime dispersal technique.) There's another photo of it, as it's being taxied in, before the Squadron's codes were painted on, and the camouflage appears to be one of the late-war two-greens schemes. There's an intriguing photo of the airfield at Lubeck, which was a main assembly/scrapping point for German aircraft and was also where 41 arrived just at the end of the war, which might just show the back end of the same airframe.

Edgar

 

[Guest]

On page 100 of Captured Butcherbirds Vol 2, it says that the aircraft is an F-8 captured at Kastrup airfield. Edgar - I'd love to see those pics; any idea how I can get them? The irony of all this is that I used to be the Sqn History Officer for 41 Sqn, and had no idea that we had a 190 on the books!

 

[Guest]

I can't remember the book, with the overhead shot, since it belonged to a former boss, who gave it away about 20 years ago; I only know that it was bigger than A4 size, and the subject matter was German a/c, maybe just the Fw190.

I forgot to mention that the photo also appeared in the original "2nd Tactical Air Force," by Christopher Shores, which was also printed in 1970. The photo's credited to "Smith," and Shores acknowledges an "F.L.Smith"; as the photo appeared in an Australian magazine, and 41 had some Australian pilots, I believe it's possible that one of them might have been the source. In the book, as it's a first-generation print, it's possible to see a circular patch, above the fin flash, apparently where the swastika was painted out, and the rudder is very dark (possibly red?) so I don't believe that it was repainted in RAF colours, except for the new roundel and fin flash, and, for visibity reasons white, rather than Sky, codes. Chris Thomas, who co-authored the latest 4-volume "2nd. TAF" series, has the taxying-in photo.

In case you're wondering about my interest in this particular aircraft, and the Squadron in general, my initials are EB.:respect1:

Edgar

 

[Guest]

That's interesting about the rudder. I see also that the spinner and front of the cowling are probably red too, with a white band behind. This would make sense as a local repaint perhaps, as 41's sqn colours are red and white.

 

[stona]

There's an intriguing photo of the airfield at Lubeck, which was a main assembly/scrapping point for German aircraft and was also where 41 arrived just at the end of the war, which might just show the back end of the same airframe.Edgar

Don't you just hate that. There's one ,maybe of XM?, taken at Lubeck,Fassburg ,Shleswig or somewhere in Norway depending who you believe,which was printed in LWIF spezial No 2. Unfortunately that too is at home where I'm not but I can safely say that the image doesn't give much away!

Steve

 

[Ian M]

On page 100 of Captured Butcherbirds Vol 2, it says that the aircraft is an F-8 captured at Kastrup airfield. Edgar - I'd love to see those pics; any idea how I can get them? The irony of all this is that I used to be the Sqn History Officer for 41 Sqn, and had no idea that we had a 190 on the books!

Cool Kastrup as in Copenhagen? I wonder if any of the local history buffs over here know any thing about that.

Edgar, you seem to have a good handle on this, but it was only MY opinion that I thought it looked Photoshoped. As you correctly pointed oout Photoshop was not about those days. How ever photoshoped does rather tend to get used as a generic term as it's easier to say/write than Digitally edited. LOL. This could also explain why it "looks" false to me. A strait line painted onto a curved surface normally distorts, the outline of the EB just look to strait.

I stand corrected .

Ian M

 

[stona]

Ian if noone chips in I'm sure I have some stuff on aircraft captured in Denmark. I seem to remember that some aircraft captured in Norway (Gardemoen ,Vaernes etc) transited through Copenhagen too but I'd need to check that. Memory,particularly when one's hearing is being assaulted by the amplified caterwaulings of the aforementioned Irishmen,can be a fickle thing.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Cool Kastrup as in Copenhagen? I wonder if any of the local history buffs over here know any thing about that.Edgar, you seem to have a good handle on this, but it was only MY opinion that I thought it looked Photoshoped. As you correctly pointed oout Photoshop was not about those days. How ever photoshoped does rather tend to get used as a generic term as it's easier to say/write than Digitally edited. LOL. This could also explain why it "looks" false to me. A strait line painted onto a curved surface normally distorts, the outline of the EB just look to strait.

I stand corrected .

Ian M

Sorry if I appeared to come on a bit strong, but I've had a running battle, on this single airframe, with our club's Luftwaffe expert (who's never wrong) over the last 20-odd years, and we're talking about someone who only builds Allied a/c if they can have black crosses adorning them, and for whom roundels on a Luftwaffe a/c are an abomination.

Edgar

 

[Ian M]

Fair comment. I do know that you are very likely one of the more knowledgeable Spitfire experts on the forums. You have probably had a good laugh at a couple of my efforts here.

AS far as Fockers in RAF markings, I have even built one which is also on her. It took me almost 30years before I built a proper 'jerry' !!!

'Nuff about that.

Do you Know any thing about the Kastrup landing?

Ian M

 

[Guest]

You have probably had a good laugh at a couple of my efforts here. Do you Know any thing about the Kastrup landing?

1.) As I haven't come near to finishing a model in over ten years, laughter would be most unfair; I occasionally wince at some "modern" interpretations, which have the airframe looking as though it's been left standing under a sewer outfall for a week, but I have the distinct advantage of having read the wartime papers about how the aircraft were built and then maintained.

2.) Not a thing, sorry.

Edgar

 

[Ian M]

Most kind. If ever I need a few tips, I know where to go and who to ask.

Ian M