discussion Brush vs airbrush?

[dalej2014]

Thanks everyone for your advice. It's kind of you all to comment. I'm also glad we can sometimes agree to disagree. Differences of opinion are great talking points, and I can learn from differing perspectives. They are all appreciated.

 

[Guest]

Actually Dale what ever you buy & then decide you do not like you can always sell with remarkably little loss.
So there is little fear in that respect.

As long as it is not made by Marquette all is OK.

Laurie

 

[BarryW]

You have a lot of good advice here, but here is my take on this.

Get the best equipment that you can afford or want to spend. If you just go cheap, for instance a 'Chinese knock off' or a compressor without a tank, you will just find that you will be wanting/needing to upgrade so it will cost you more.

My equipment recommendation would be to spend approx. £100 on an airbrush that is gravity fed, double action with a needle size of 0.3 to 0.4. Spend a little less on a compressor with a tank, which can be obtained for around £85 such as the AS186. If a cheap airbrush comes bundled with it either put it on eBay or just use it for priming. The tank will help keep the spraying pressure more even and avoid pulsing as, as it means the motor does not run all the time, you don't have the continuous motor noise and there is less wear and tear.

I would recommend getting a spray mask. If you are just spraying water based acrylics then you really just need to protect yourself from particulates, but if spraying lacquers or enamels you will have fumes to worry about.

I would also suggest getting the following, but these are not necessary straight away, do so when you can afford it.

• An in-line water trap (the compressor should have on on it, if not get one of these immediately). I have two, one of the compressor and the other at the airbrush business end.
• A Fine-Pressure Control (fpc) attached to the airbrush. This enables you to get better control over the flow. I set my compressor pressure to a slightly higher level than I use it at and adjust it for spraying via the fpc. This way I can move easily from a very low pressure for fine lines up to blasting cleaner through the brush at the compressor setting.
• A spray-booth. These need not be expensive, or big. Some have carbon filters that don't have to be vented but these are only really OK if you are just spraying water based paint. If spraying anything else you need to vent it through an open window. I should add that one of these does not alleviate the need for a mask.

Now, as for paint....

There is a real learning curve as each paint has its own characteristics that you need to get used to and understand.

Water based acrylics are popular due to the lack of smell and one brand in particular, Vallejo Model Air, are specifically designed for the airbrush. They claim that these don't need thinning though some people disagree and do add some thinner (I do recommend their brand thinner, not water). I found that they spray OK unthinned, from the bottle at 20-25 psi, through an airbrush with a minimum 0.3 needle, unless you want to drop the pressure for fine lines in which case thinning is essential. A smaller needle size can be problematical and thinning is needed. You also need to place a drop of flow enhancer into the cup as 'tip-dry' can be a problem with water based paint. Some other tips:

• Wipe the model with i.p.a. to get rid of finger grease and 'rubble' before spraying.
• Prime. Water based paint has adhesion issues and a good primer will help with this. I would use Stynylrez, One Shot or Ultimate Primer. I understand that the last two are just branded versions of the former. I would not use Vallejo primer as that can be a problem. Primer will also help identify build flaws so you can sort them before laying down a base coat.
• Ensure that you wait at least 24 hours between coats. The water based paint needs to cure, not just dry. Curing times can vary and it is often affected by humidity. The best thing to do is put a model in an airing cupboard, if you can, to cure. Water based paints, if you do some search and read reviews, have a lot of detractors and while some people swear by them others hate them and have all sorts of trouble. The big factor affecting peoples experience with them relates to curing.

I used to use water based, mainly Vallejo, all the time and if you get a hang of their 'quirks' they can work well but they do provide a significant learning curve and add complexity to aibrush use.

However - After using them almost exclusively for 5 years I tried what was then a new brand of paint, MRP, then known as MR Paint (not to be confused with Mr Color). These are airbrush ready lacquer paints. I immediately gave away all my water based acrylics and bought over 100 bottles of MRP.

• Lacquer paints, generally, are the best type of paints for the airbrush that you can get. They have none of the vices of water based paints in that:
  • They dry within minutes and 'etch' into the plastic making them more durable than water based paint.
  • They are ready to mask over within 30 minutes, not 24 hours. Humidity has no impact on them at all.
  • They spray like silk and are very forgiving at a relatively low psi.
  • There are no 'tip-dry' issues to worry about.
  • They clean up very easily indeed with a lacquer thinner or i.p.a.

There are a few good lacquer brands and the two that 'stand-out' are Gunze Mr Colour and MRP. Be careful, both brands have water based acrylic versions as well so make sure you get the right ones. Both brands have a huge colour range incidentally. My choice of the two is MRP the pros and cons are as follows:

• MRP come in larger 30ml bottles and are 'airbrush ready'. I have not had to thin MRP once in 6 years of using them, not even for thin lines and mottle. Mr Color come in 10ml bottles (Vallejo being 17ml) incidentally to give some perspective and Mr Colour need thinning.
• The pigment is so small that it more resembles ink so you can use even smaller needle sizes without issues.
• The paint is so thin detail really stands out, even irregularities in the plastic, such as the 'flow' of the plastic as it was injected into the mould. This is not the case with all kits and depends of the type of plastic used. This is not a problem as this disappears under varnish and other coats but it illustrates how thin the paint is, which, on balance is a good thing overall.
• I spray at a low pressure of 10-12psi, lower for fine lines. It is, however, very forgiving if you make a mistake.
• They have a huge colour range and have never had to mix paint.

The qualities of MRP means that they are an easy paint to use and, as such, ideal for learners but they do have downsides:

• At approx. £5/bottle they seem to be more expensive than most. However they are in larger bottles and, in my experience, spraying at a low psi results in a better coverage. As always cost does not always relate to value and we all get what we pay for.
• They smell. You do ideally need a venting spray booth or, at least a very tolerant family in a very well ventilated space.
• You cannot hand-brush them. I do touch ups with an airbrush using localised masking. You can 'dab' a little lacquer paint in spots over lacquer but brushing it reactivates the underlying paint making a mess. To hand-brush detail over the sprayed lacquer base I use water based paint such as Vallejo Model Colour. The two work well together.

My advice for the best combination of materials:
Airbrush with lacquers
Hand brush with water based acrylics
Weather with enamels

I hope that helps

An airbrush will raise your modelling to another level. My advice is to use the airbrush by default, hand brush only detail where masking is not possible or realistic.

Whatever you do, practise but I do believe that you understand that.

Oh, cleaning.
I do a clean between colours by wiping the inside of the cup then I spray a cup of i.p.a., then a drop of lacquer thinner to finish off. I.p.a. via Amazon, in bulk, is a lot cheaper than thinner so I use that mostly. At the end of a session I do the above but I also do a 'blowback' of the thinner by pinching the needle end to obstruct flow (with great care) and then a final i.p.a. cup. Once a week or so I do a strip clean and again, more thoroughly, at the end of a project.

 

[dalej2014]

...

Oh, cleaning.
I do a clean between colours by wiping the inside of the cup then I spray a cup of i.p.a., then a drop of lacquer thinner to finish off. I.p.a. via Amazon, in bulk, is a lot cheaper than thinner so I use that mostly. At the end of a session I do the above but I also do a 'blowback' of the thinner by pinching the needle end to obstruct flow (with great care) and then a final i.p.a. cup. Once a week or so I do a strip clean and again, more thoroughly, at the end of a project.

Thanks very much Barry! Lots of information there to digest and process. I'll have a proper read through again later, and bear all of that in mind. I wasn't planning to outlay quite so much just yet, but I can always build up to over time. Your advice is very much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Guest]

I would recommend getting a spray mask. If you are just spraying water based acrylics then you really just need to protect yourself from particulates, but if spraying lacquers or enamels you will have fumes to worry about.

I'll second this advice. I only use water based acrylics and on changing the filters on my 3M respirator I certainly wouldn't like what's on the filters to be in my lungs.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Absolutely right! A good quality mask is an essential in my opinion as well.

 

[stona]

I don't believe it is a case of airbrush v brush.

I have seen some outstanding results from people using only hairy sticks; just take a look at some of the stuff produced by 'Spanner570' (Ron). However, there are some things that are best and most easily achieved with an airbrush. For most mere mortals Barry is correct when he says that an airbrush will raise your modelling to another level.

You've already got a ton of very good advice. I expect you'll be doing a bit of experimentation soon to find out what works best for you! I am rather old school and still use enamel paints which are not for everyone. I did enjoy a flirtation with various acrylics but you know the old saying about old dogs and new tricks.

The MRP lacquers mentioned by Barry are something I've also had a go with and found extremely easy to use. You can use them straight out of the bottle, meaning you don't have to worry about the knotty problem of thinning and they don't have any of the clogging/early drying issues of some acrylic systems (I found Xtracrylix almost unusable for example). I'd say as a start they'd be a good choice, you can always move on later if you want to.

 

[Guest]

I wasn't planning to outlay quite so much just yet, but I can always build up to over time. Your advice is very much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time.

Have a look on Ebay Dale. Some reasonable bargains. Gives a start & if you like & upgrade you will get, by putting back on Ebay, most of your money back.

If you buy second hand just get the seller to confirm that the needle & nozzle are in first class condition. If not you can return & claim your money back.

Laurie

 

[spanner570]

Dale, don't be in too much of a hurry to purchase an A.B.

A paint brush can produce just as good a result as any A.B.....Fact!

...and as a bonus, no faffing about.

 

[Guest]

A paint brush can produce just as good a result as any A.B.....Fact!

Ron. Mmmmmmmm.

1*48 Dart Herald. One coat all over, thin as they come, gets into all corners, one coat about 4 minutes.
Smooth as most babies bottoms.

Dry in less than 30 mins.

Clean airbrush 2 minutes.

Laurie

.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Ron never mentioned time taken to put the paint on Laurie. He is definitely correct, a hairy brush can be as effective as an air brush. I now prefer an airbrush because it generates an even coat more quickly, but have produced as even and as thin a finish using a decent flat brush. I never had an airbrush myself until a good twenty years after I started taking modelling seriously. They were simply out of my price range. I therefore learned how to put on a flat even coat of paint with no tramlines. An airbrush is useful, but not essential.

 

[dalej2014]

Dale, don't be in too much of a hurry to purchase an A.B.

A paint brush can produce just as good a result as any A.B.....Fact!

...and as a bonus, no faffing about.

Thank you. It's good to hear the other side of things too. I've been doing OK with a hairy stick up 'til now, and an AB is definitely a luxury. I have thought about one for ages, but it may just be an extravagant whim!

 

[Guest]

Ron never mentioned time taken to put the paint on Laurie. He is definitely correct, a hairy brush can be as effective as an air brush. I now prefer an airbrush because it generates an even coat more quickly, but have produced as even and as thin a finish using a decent flat brush. I never had an airbrush myself until a good twenty years after I started taking modelling seriously. They were simply out of my price range. I therefore learned how to put on a flat even coat of paint with no tramlines. An airbrush is useful, but not essential.

Not quite Tim. No faffing around.

But think.

One coat of primer

One coat of finish

Coat for camouflage

One coat gloss for decals

One coat of satin or matt to finish

Time & thickness of all those coats.

Not knocking just comparing.

There was a member on here in my first journey on this forum.
He produced just Lancasters. Each one was hand brushed.

He sat in his armchair in the evening with his wife watching TV
painting away his Lancs. Quite amazing. a picture of him was
published on here.

The pictures he posted showed the finish to be first class.
I spent many years in early youth in an architects office
painting & it is an art not easily achieved.

That was painting numerous hours a week. Painting a model
perhaps one every two months is not the best way to achieve
a great standard. Perhaps airbrushing is cheating :astonished:

Also to achieve effects an airbrush has so many advantages.
To emulate with hand brushing you have to be a grand exponent
with a hand brush.

Laurie

 

[Mark1]

Bart sharp make some pretty cheap ab's but better quality than the cheapy Chinese jobs,i got a single action trigger type for priming and base coat with a 0.5 needle so bit less chance of clogging and probably easier to learn with than a double action that was about 35 quid, have an 0.2 double action which is more usefull for smaller parts or shading etc. I managed to ruin two of the twenty quid jobbies in no time.

 

[Guest]

Dale .
We all have out horror stories of fights with the AB.
I started with H&S had nothing but problems , even with their better ( ? ) models.
Now use Iwata, harder to clean as the tip has to be removed with a spanner, but gives a better spray for me.
Changing all my Vallejo over time to AK 3 Rd gen, why because fed up with fiddling about with tip drying. No matter what I did, thinned, added extender it would be ok then the tip would dry .Now a lot easier.
Each of us have out thoughts on this regarding paint, type and make.Just be prepared to have failures, and don't be put off by them .
You will find what's right by trial and error.
Welcome to the world of the AB, remember at the end of the day we do this for fun !
So people keep telling me, I'm not so sure at times

 

[BarryW]

Dale, don't be in too much of a hurry to purchase an A.B.

A paint brush can produce just as good a result as any A.B.....Fact!

...and as a bonus, no faffing about.

This is true, I have seen some brilliant models that have been hand brushed. But it does take considerable skill that most of us simply do not achieve. What is more brush painting cannot really get a coat of paint as thin as an airbrush can.

The process, typical for a combat aircraft:
1/ Prime coat 1 - check for build flaws, correct them,
2/Primer coat 2 (not necessarily the whole model), check again for flaws and, maybe repeat 1 and 2.
3/ Pre-shade (unless you are black basing)
4/ Underside base coat applied with different levels of opaqueness to create a modulated appearance.
5/ First topside camo coat applied as per 4
6/ Second topside camo colour applied as per 4
7/ Post shading
8/ Gloss coat as base for decals
9/ Gloss coat to protect decals and provide a base for washes
10/ Washes
11/ First Matt coat
12/ Pigments and other weathering effects
13/ Second and last Matt or Semi-Matt coat for appropriate finish.
14/ Final weathering effects.

That is a lot of coats of paint and other materials. True that not every stage is applied to the whole model, but even the minimum is primer, base coat, gloss, gloss, wash, Matt, final Matt. Seven layers, six if you miss a gloss under the decals. To do that with a brush would be very difficult without obscuring detail. I am not sure how handbrushing can achieve feathered affects, or the same kind of pre-shading effects and subtle modulated effects an airbrush can do, let alone a mottle.

I would say yes, Ron is spot on, you can get a superb result from a hand brush. But, an airbrush opens you up to a lot of different techniques and despite the learning curve it is easier to get a great result with. That is why I, and a lot of others, regard an airbrush as essential, not a luxury.

That is why airbrush use has boomed since the days when Chris Ellis famously wrote ‘How to Go Plastic Modelling’ back in the 1960’s, describing airbrushes as an unnecessary expense. Times have changed, airbrushes are a lot cheaper and tools, materials and techniques have developed. I wonder what Chris Ellis would say today?

 

[dalej2014]

....

That is why airbrush use has boomed since the days when Chris Ellis famously wrote ‘How to Go Plastic Modelling’ back in the 1960’s, describing airbrushes as an unnecessary expense. Times have changed, airbrushes are a lot cheaper and tools, materials and techniques have developed. I wonder what Chris Ellis would say today?

Love that book. Read it cover to cover many times as a lad (and a few as an adult too). Recently got the "... advanced plastic modelling" as well.

 

[Gern]

It's amazing how many different ways there are to put colour onto our bits of plastic! I can't tell you which is best/worst 'cos you're going to have to play around with the various options to find what works best for you.

You should try all the different options - they all have pros and cons. You may find for example that enamels spray and cover best but the smell and clean-up don't suit your situation. There's nowt wrong with having a selection of half-a-dozen different types of paint, you don't have to commit to one brand/type on day one. Just buy the colours you need for your next kit in whichever type you want to try - acrylic/enamel/Tamiya/Vallejo/hairy stick/AB/spray can, and go for it. That way you won't be spending a fortune on paints you may find you're unhappy with, and if what you've bought doesn't work, try something different. Pretty soon you'll find what you like.

 

[Tim Marlow]

It's amazing how many different ways there are to put colour onto our bits of plastic! I can't tell you which is best/worst 'cos you're going to have to play around with the various options to find what works best for you.

You should try all the different options - they all have pros and cons. You may find for example that enamels spray and cover best but the smell and clean-up don't suit your situation. There's nowt wrong with having a selection of half-a-dozen different types of paint, you don't have to commit to one brand/type on day one. Just buy the colours you need for your next kit in whichever type you want to try - acrylic/enamel/Tamiya/Vallejo/hairy stick/AB/spray can, and go for it. That way you won't be spending a fortune on paints you may find you're unhappy with, and if what you've bought doesn't work, try something different. Pretty soon you'll find what you like.

+1 on this….spot on Dave. Nothing is essential until you find it is…..

 

[dalej2014]

It's amazing how many different ways there are to put colour onto our bits of plastic! I can't tell you which is best/worst 'cos you're going to have to play around with the various options to find what works best for you.

...

Thanks for your comment - it is good to remember there are lots of options out there.
I'm lucky to have inherited a large stash of old Humbrol and Airfix enamels, although most have "settled" (I've just ordered some agitator balls), and I have quite a stash of acrylics too, from my mini painting days.
I've got pastels, oils, pencils, markers and other bits for art as well, so lots to play with. I'll have a mess around and see what works, and what doesn't.
An AB would be another tool, and a useful one I imagine, but it wouldn't obsolete all the other toys in box by any means. Cheers