discussion Canopy painting???

[Peej]

A few of you guys have looked at my models on anther post & the comments I have received have been very encouraging. The main problem I am having is painting the canopies. If they need to be black I find it easier to use fine tip sharpie marker. It's when they need to be a different colour is when I have problems. Any help or tips on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Alan 45]

You can mask them up just leaving the frame of the canopy or use a very fine brush to paint them free hand if you get any overspill this can be gently removed with a toothpick so it won't scratch the glass

 

[Peej]

Thanks Alan. I have tried to do freehand, need more practice so I won't give up but I do seem to have a problem with the paint not keying.

 

[Guest]

"I do seem to have a problem with the paint not keying"

Yes, so do I. That's why I prefer the masking method - once it's masked you can prime and apply multiple coats, and if you're careful taking the masking off, it works a treat. The Eduard pre-cut canopy masks are great for starters (but a bit expensive), or you can make your own by putting oversized pieces of masking tape over the panes, burnishing it down to show the frame, then carefully trimming the mask with a very sharp knife. It's laborious but it does work - but only when you have a raised frame on the canopy. Alternatively you could mask off the edges of each frame with thin strips of tape and just paint the frame between them.

A method I used to use when I was younger was to paint a piece of sellotape or masking tape the right colour, then just cut strips and stick them over the frame lines. I've not seen it mentioned on this forum, and it doesn't produce such good results as masking, but in some situations, e.g. where masking is awkward, it might be the best thing to do.

 

[Alan 45]

Thanks Alan. I have tried to do freehand, need more practice so I won't give up but I do seem to have a problem with the paint not keying.

Yeah Paul I think we all do I have been known to do three coats on a frame the worst are when there is no frame and it's just a line now that is when I mask , when I mask I don't do the whole canopy I do a line at a time and leave it to cure then do another line it takes time but it does work

 

[Guest]

I tried the painted masking tape idea as a youngster and it does work but it can be fiddly. I suspect using Selotape the paint might come off again.

The best without a doubt is masking as it has one huge advantage. That is the first coat can be the internal cockpit colour. Then subsequent coats can match the external paint scheme. This means that when you look through the canopy at the inside of the frame you will see the appropriate internal cockpit colour which makes a huge difference.

 

[Guest]

Paul, Dip the canopy on Kleer or Humbrol Clear, and allow to dry for at least 24 Hrs. Get some 6mm Tamiya Tape and a tooth pick/cocktail stick sharpened to a chisel point. Put a new blade in your smallest craft knife. Place the masking tape strip by strip over the canopy, and as each strip goes on burnish where it meets the canopy frame with the chisel point and lightly trim the excess. Repeat until finished. Apply only a very light coat of the Kleer or what ever you used over the tape, this prevents bleeding of the paint under the canopy. Cheers Derek

 

[Alan 45]

Has anyone mentioned liquid mask? I use it chipping but I think it was designed for canopy sand such

 

[Guest]

After a lot of trying this and that I came down to masking with tape.

First I find it is best not to use tape straight from the roll. The edges are raggy if you look closely where they have been cut in the factory. I find it best to place a piece on a cutting board and with a Morton blade cut a sharp line through the tape. I then have a sharp tape edge which helps to stop paint creep under the tape.

Use a new American razor blade (the ones with the thick metal backing one side) to cut the ends of the tape on the plastic canopy. This blade has a finer edge than the Morton. Bed down the tape edge with a blunt instrument. Some use toothpicks I use a small rounded end clay model detailer wich gives a good clean edge.

Been using the Vallejo matt varnish as a primer to one seal the tape edges and two provide a matt base for the paint. Using primer I find you get an edge in primer colour and also primer tends to be thicker than paint. Next time I am going to try a thin coat of Humbrol Clear as a primer and edge sealer.

I find it is best to airbrush as you get a thin fine coat with great coverage. With hand brushing a thicker build up of paint I find hinders a good release on the tape removal. However careful with hand brushing I get thin bits and need to give another coat giving an unwanted build up.

After curing, just, so that it is still a little soft I use the American razor to carefully score between the tape and paint. Then with huge foreboding and much stress I remove the tape. As mentioned before toothpick any excess which after the scoring with the blade should still give a clean line. Where I may have been unlucky I use a fine brush with Vallejo Model Air slightly thinned and a magnifier to carry out a make good job.

A lot of bother but for me the first thing you look at on an aircraft model is the canopy.

Laurie

 

[Peej]

Thanks guys. Plenty of ideas there for me try. I will try them all and see which I get on with best.

 

[flyjoe180]

Masking canopies also means that when you varnish the model your canopy has the same finish. I used to put them on after the main paint work with PVA white glue and hand paint the frames. As already discussed the paint doesn't adhere well to a non-primed surface, as canopies are typically of a smooth plastic. This can lead to many coats being required, which is a recipe for disaster as the more often you paint it freehand the more likely your chances are of stuffing it up. Secondly the use of matt paints caused the framing to not quite match the nicely varnished main paint work.

The tape method, liquid masking using Maskol or similar, or pre-cut masks are all great ways of achieving the masking job you are after.

 

[Guest]

The easiest method, however the most costly, but best for beginners are Pre cut aftermarket masks. These can be bought from Eduard. Eduard is also a kit manufacturer, but they specialise at aftermarket products such as detail parts and photo etch. I recommend not to use liquid mask until you are more experienced due to it's messy properties and it's hard to get straight line. Additionally, the cheapest way is to buy a roll of Tamiya thin masking tape, with a No. 11 hobby knife (brand new by the way) and mask it over and cut it out according to the frames. If you want the quickest, easiest way, try out Eduard's masks. Do NOT get it from their own store. The postage is as expensive as HELL! Get it off ebay or hannants. Also, montex makes great mask sets. These are slightly more expensive than the eduard ones. However, Eduard Products are absolutely top class, and you should not find any problem with them.

John

 

[stona]

I think that the only way to do this is by masking. There are several materials available for doing this and I've tried them all! I have settled on Tamiya tape and a new #11 scalpel blade as the best solution for me.

I have had success with bare metal foil and Parafilm but found them both trickier than tape. Liquid mask was a disaster for me. This is just my experience and I know others who swear by other methods.

Pre-cut masks are a much easier but also much more expensive option. They are not available for all models either, so developing your own system is going to be a must.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I have not as yet used precut masks. i have some for the present model but I am reluctant to use them as it looked to that it is possible to get paint creep ie more than with tape.

Also with most cockpits and windows they are curved in 3d.

So do they allow paint creep and also do they fit around 3D bits as they will have to stretch ?

Laurie

 

[stona]

Most pre-cut masks are some sort of vinyl and I've not had problems with paint creeping underneath.

Generally the fit is good and they are shaped to accommodate curves or cut into overlapping sections to do the same.

I used pre-cut masks on a 1/72 Lancaster fairly recently and I did touch up a couple with tape. That probably had more to do with to my poor fitting than any problem inherent in the masks themselves.

I would never bother buying them for a typical fighter canopy as I can't justify the cost. For a bomber with a lot of 'glass', particularly in a small scale, I would definitely recommend them.

Cheers

Steve

 

[BarryW]

I have often used masks and never had paint creep. Initially I did have a problem with the frame paint coming away with the masks but that is largely over come by:

1/ Cleaning the canopy with i.p.a. first.

2/ NOT using primer as I find it a bit more rubbery than my normal Vallejo

3/ By carefully using a cocktail stick around the edges of a frame, pushing the mask into the centre first.

You do have to burnish down around the edges though.

The main problem with masks (and Tammy tape) is glue residue. These days I mostly use Parafilm M which is a large initial outlay but longer term is a very cheap option, it needs practise too..... if you are not careful you can score the transparency when cutting around the edges but there is no glue residue at all.

 

[flyjoe180]

I've not noticed any problems with Tamiya tape leaving residue Barry. I've had models with the mask left on for months before removal. Then again it is probably more noticeable on the larger scales with which you work, when compared to the 1/72 scale I work with?

 

[BarryW]

Thats true Joe.

 

[stona]

Very rarely have any residue from Tamiya tape and I too leave it on for considerable periods. Any residue is easily removed with a cotton bud moistened with alcohol. Klear can be re-applied using the same method. I can't remember the last time I had to do it!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I am not a fan of Tamiya. Found in certain cases apart from canopies that Tamiya leaves a residue especially on matt paint. On canopies where it has been well "ironed on" I suspect it is inevitable that there is something left on in most case not noticeable.

But I have found sometimes that paint does not like areas where Tamiya has been.

I have been using the Micron tape which John supplies in the shop. Found it much more flexible and smoother and sits down well on to paint or clear plastic. Not sure that it is any better or worse than Tamiya as far as residue is concerned.

I bet Paul you did not expect this coverage on what appears to be a simple question with so much in the way of sophisticated replies. You could not get that from Wickipedia or any other forum I have looked at. Or have received so much information, some of which is not contradictory but certainly varied, without silly arguments as to which is best. In essence there is not a best you just a varied and expansive view of years of experience.

Laurie