discussion Italeri Elco PT

[Jostro65]

Hi all, at the risk of duplicating/resurrecting old threads here but can't find what I'm looking for.
Got a hold of one of these kits and looking at motorising it rather than having just the static model. I've had some experience of r/c but not recent.
I'm aware there are kits for the extras needed on eBay for a lot of money, yet any I've seen are incomplete, no motors, speed controllers, some with all the brass but no electrics etc.
I do have some radio equipment and motors/escs from my drones but I'm really not sure where to start.
I can get props/shafts/bearings pre built (and quite a lot more) on the Chinese sites like AliExpress a great deal cheaper than can be had in the UK.
If possible I would like to re-use what I can as money is tight, I've seen other threads referring to this kit but they are quite old and things in the RC world have moved on tremendously since they were done.
If anyone has any recent experience of motorising one of these, or can give me any pointers in which way to go id be very grateful.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Guest]

Think fitting engines and motors into a ship seems to be full of problems
Think @boatman is the man to ask .

 

[boatman]

WELL FROM your start blog im not sure what you want to know ? as it seems to me you know all about the subject ? but put it clear here what you want to know ? chrisb

 

[Ian M]

Basicly to make the Boat RC, or any boat for that matter you will need:
A radio sender - Transmitter. 2 channel could do it, 4 will do it. more channels more fun.
A receiver . matched to the sender and with the required number of channels.
A speed controller or controllers, that can handel the total power (amps) of the motor(s) A boat of this size a single motor/prop would throw it at a fair rate though the water. Alternative one could be two motors geared to run the outer most shafts, one with the clock one against it to cancel torque steering. the second motor on the central shaft for when you really want to shift some water. All in: One motor each shaft, But that starts to become expensive and difficult to manage.
Remember boat speed is more about torque than prop speed.
Prop-shafts for each prop.
Two left and a right hand prop. (or two right and a left).
A single servo to turn the rudders,
This will give a boat that will run and steer.

Buying cheap from China is a good way to use a lot of money, buying unknown items. Buying in the UK will not only cost you more, but will include a customer service you can talk to, a Guarantee you can fall back on, and experience from the dealler so that you only need to buy things once.
And you help keep a model shop open in the UK. (Or which ever country you are resident in).

 

[Jostro65]

Thanks for getting back guys.
Radio gear I have from my planes/drones and trying to re-use the power gear from one of those if poss. Below is the motor/esc combo I have spare, 4 sets of these so could go up to 3 props if need be but would prefer the simpler option of 1.
Would 1 of these be enough for this size of kit?



I think have a grip of the basics for installing the running gear, probably just use fan for cooling rather than water if possible. It's the details that will trip me up.
Simple xample, the radio and leccy kit I have available is for flying, so does this mean a different radio, different motors etc to enable the boat to reverse?
That seems like a stupid question but never had to reverse a drone or a plane!
We did have a local-ish model shop, proper place with guys who really knew their stuff and I rarely went anywhere else but times change and they closed up bout 6 years ago.
Makes a difference when you can show someone what you're trying to do and they can sort you out without trying to sell you a "boatload" of stuff you don't need!
All pointers/advice/critique are truly welcome as I've never tried this route before.
It seems too nice a kit just to build and leave on a shelf in my loft.

 

[Ian M]

I know very little about drones and their inner workings. I can see that is a Brushless outrunner type motor which normally have very high RPM being from a drone I expect the rpm to be way to fast for a boat. The controller is probably not very waterproof but a sealed box can solve that.
The radio. What type is it and how many channels does it have. I would guess that due to the way drones fly that the radio has a mixer that can control the motors and not a lot else.
A lot of ifs and maybe's. I would probably have a look around for a cheap RC unit and buy a more suited motor and controller. But it is your choice.

 

[boatman]

HI Richie well Ian has said a bit an i thought you would be ok BUT for me to help you firstly what type of boat or ship will you be wanting to sail pic please an as for R/C well for boats or ship i use 2 . 4 GIG is the type of R/C used now an it wont get interferance from other R/C SO a picture of said vessel you want to run an size lenght an beam so i can get a little idea of what you are tryin to do ? but if you are usein a brushless motor then sorry i cant help you as i know zilch about them an which country are you in ?
Chrisb

 

[Jostro65]

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/italeri-5602-elco-80-torpedo-boat-pt-596--101615


Sorry guys I meant to add that link at the get-go, my bad!
Also I'm in Scotland, just west of Glasgow.
I'll get those measurements and a rough idea of the weight later today.
Brushed/brushless makes no difference to me, again I'll take your advice on what's easiest. I've seen loads of cheap waterproof esc/motor combos but again, I have no clue on kv, can sizes, prop sizes etc and what they affect.
I have 2.4 gear but again, plane/quad radios don't have reverse so another cheapo 3 or 4 channel doody will be required.
I'm aware things can go crazy on these builds with lights, rotating guns, sound and such. Not for me at this time, just a simple set up to power the boat to start me off.
I hate just throwing this out and relying totally on others but I'm at an age where I try and read up on this stuff and it just doesn't process any more!
many thanks again guys

 

[Ian M]

I have 2.4 gear but again, plane/quad radios don't have reverse

LOL
All radio senders have reverse, it the aircraft that dont.
Do you have a photo of the radio gear?

 

[Jostro65]

LOL
All radio senders have reverse, it the aircraft that dont.
Do you have a photo of the radio gear?

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy...-proportional-radio-control-system-black.html

Reason I thought no reverse is the left stick is a ratchet mechanism, not sprung.
Again replacing this with a cheaper simpler radio is not a problem.
Also the kit itself is 70cm long, 19cm at widest.
I've weighed it in box to get idea of approx all up weight when gear is added and comes in at 2.2kg.

 

[Jostro65]

Soooooo, about those dumb questions I may throw your way occasionally......
The radio is digital proportional, if I plugged motor esc to right hand stick and used what would be the elevator control, would this give me a forward/reverse stick?
I want to go plug things in and try it but if I let the magic blue smoke out I may be stuffed!
I'll wait!

 

[boatman]

HI Richie yes now i can see what boat you are powerin so a mtb bacicaly so you want speed so use lipo batts as powerfull but light an as Ian HAS said all raidios can do reveseve it the ESC that gives the motor the revese an you will proberly end up with a BECC one (BATT ELEMINAION CIRCUT) as i have been havin probs with these as mine are made in china as when i bought mine it shew a british flag on the sight on ebay so i thought i was buyin a british one but no when they came it says made in china an they are not great but as i have them i will try an use them but if you can get a british one do so an about a 40 amp one an yes for speed a brushless one is best than a brushed motor but i dont understand how to get them to bind to the R/C as my boaty mate knows a lot about eletrics but when he bought a brushless motor an esc he could not work it out an had to send his back to the makers to get them to do it an they did so hope this helps you sir
chrisb

 

[Jostro65]

Thanks again Chris.
So what size of motor and prop would you recommend to give this size boat a half decent performance?
Like I said I dont need to send waves across the pond but a speed relevant to the type of model rather than a cargo ship! If I get a motor size then could I just go for a combo which would give the appropriate esc?
I have a few 3s lipos and wouldn't need any more than those.

On a slightly different note, need paint advice. I build in my loft with no ventilation so I stick with Vallejo acrylics. If this boat's going in the water will I need a different paint job, on the hull at least?

Once again, thanks for taking the time to help me out here guys.

 

[Ian M]

Having seen the specs on that radio I recon you will be ok plugging the ESC in the one stick and a servo for the rudder in the other stick. But as you are aware blue puff of smoke is not good. If that esc is the one from the drone as is the motor try hooking them all up and give it a go, just taped to the desk

 

[boatman]

Thanks again Chris.
So what size of motor and prop would you recommend to give this size boat a half decent performance?
Like I said I dont need to send waves across the pond but a speed relevant to the type of model rather than a cargo ship! If I get a motor size then could I just go for a combo which would give the appropriate esc?
I have a few 3s lipos and wouldn't need any more than those.

On a slightly different note, need paint advice. I build in my loft with no ventilation so I stick with Vallejo acrylics. If this boat's going in the water will I need a different paint job, on the hull at least?

Once again, thanks for taking the time to help me out here guys.

SO Richie your boat is quite small just below 28 inches long an i cant recommed what size of brushless motor an esc as i think they come togeather when you buy them but if you buy a brushed johnsons motor from howes an ask them what esc is best to go with it hopefully they will advise you as they are in the model boats mag an prop size i think 33 mm 5 bladed brass prop or go to prop shop also in the mag an order a real bronce prop like ive got on my tiger but they are more exspensive but up to you on that hope that helps you oh an paint well i use humbroll spray paints as my models are a bit on the large size
chrisb

 

[stillp]

On a slightly different note, need paint advice. I build in my loft with no ventilation so I stick with Vallejo acrylics. If this boat's going in the water will I need a different paint job, on the hull at least?

I'd give it a coat of clear lacquer just to play safe. A Halfords aerosol will do. Of course you'll need to do that outside as it stinks!
Pete

 

[Jostro65]

Having seen the specs on that radio I recon you will be ok plugging the ESC in the one stick and a servo for the rudder in the other stick. But as you are aware blue puff of smoke is not good. If that esc is the one from the drone as is the motor try hooking them all up and give it a go, just taped to the desk

Hi Ian,
Hooked motor and esc up to radio but there's no channel/stick I can connect it to that gives me forward and reverse.
Think I just look out for a cheap tx combo that's not designed for flying.
Thanks again though and keep the input/suggestions coming.

 

[Ian M]

Hooked motor and esc up to radio but there's no channel/stick I can connect it to that gives me forward and reverse.

I think you have to program it in the radio's set up think.

 

[Jostro65]

Hmmmm, did a bit more searching there and it appears some ESCs definitely don't have reverse available, namely those used for flight, such as the ones I have!
I suppose it actually makes sense when you think about it, to avoid accidentally reversing a propellor when throttling back. Surefire way to bring your flying to an abrupt end!

 

[Jostro65]

Hey all, been a while since Ive touched this, life just gets in the way of modelling sometimes, so unfair!
So not much happened in the way of actual building but I've picked up some bits and pieces of electronics and hardware here and there, some suitable, some maybe not so!
At this point I'll also add I have a smaller (50cm) Japanese PT15 in 1/72 that I was also planning on converting, so some of these parts could possibly be used for that.
I have 2 brushless 2838 3800kv motors with waterproof esc's and 1 brushed 550 with esc. The 550 was bought with the PT15 in mind but comparing the actual sizes of these I'm not sure if that'll work out.
I'd picked up some 20cm propshafts in a sale, but they're a 4mm shaft with 10mm outer and that seems like a big hole to be drilling in something this size so they not be used. Will look for smaller diameter shafts.
Rudders I've picked up, 28mm, they seem ok size wise.
Servos for the steering also.
I also picked up a cheap 4ch radio/receiver and I can use reverse on this so that's a plus.
Ill stick some pics of these motors when I get a chance and would appreciate any feedback/opinions on their suitability, or not of that's the case.